Rule clarification question

[cubfan]

I had an odd question that came up when talking to a few friends and didn't know where to look for answers. I thought someone here might know. I remeber several years ago in a game a team scored a run before the third out was recorded on a player that did not tag up on a fly ball or something similar at least. If the manager had appealed before the last player left the field the run would not have counted.

For example, if there are runners on 2nd and 3rd with 1 out and neither runner tagged up on a fly ball. The runner on third crosses home plate before the runner on 2nd base is called out for leaving the base early by the other team throwing to 2nd base and touching the base. Would the team on the field also need to throw the ball and touch 3rd base as an appeal that that runner also left early? We all remember something happing like this several years (probably 10 or more) ago but could not remeber exactly why. Any help would be great and sorry if this is posted in the wrong spot. Thanks

[Hosak8]

I had an odd question that came up when talking to a few friends and didn't know where to look for answers. I thought someone here might know. I remeber several years ago in a game a team scored a run before the third out was recorded on a player that did not tag up on a fly ball or something similar at least. If the manager had appealed before the last player left the field the run would not have counted.

For example, if there are runners on 2nd and 3rd with 1 out and neither runner tagged up on a fly ball. The runner on third crosses home plate before the runner on 2nd base is called out for leaving the base early by the other team throwing to 2nd base and touching the base. Would the team on the field also need to throw the ball and touch 3rd base as an appeal that that runner also left early? We all remember something happing like this several years (probably 10 or more) ago but could not remeber exactly why. Any help would be great and sorry if this is posted in the wrong spot. Thanks

 

IF the run is counted, but the player did not tag, then the manager of the defensive team would need for his player to step on the bag, explaining that this is an appeal. At that point, the umpire must then rule whether or not the player left too early, discounting his run.

[Bull]

while we're discussing odd plays from ten years ago, anyone remember in the early 90's when two cub runners ended up standing on first? that was fun. I though Harry was gonna have stroke in the booth. Not kidding.

[fromthestretch]

I had an odd question that came up when talking to a few friends and didn't know where to look for answers. I thought someone here might know. I remeber several years ago in a game a team scored a run before the third out was recorded on a player that did not tag up on a fly ball or something similar at least. If the manager had appealed before the last player left the field the run would not have counted.

For example, if there are runners on 2nd and 3rd with 1 out and neither runner tagged up on a fly ball. The runner on third crosses home plate before the runner on 2nd base is called out for leaving the base early by the other team throwing to 2nd base and touching the base. Would the team on the field also need to throw the ball and touch 3rd base as an appeal that that runner also left early? We all remember something happing like this several years (probably 10 or more) ago but could not remeber exactly why. Any help would be great and sorry if this is posted in the wrong spot. Thanks

 

IF the run is counted, but the player did not tag, then the manager of the defensive team would need for his player to step on the bag, explaining that this is an appeal. At that point, the umpire must then rule whether or not the player left too early, discounting his run.

 

According to the rules:

 

Appeal plays may require an umpire to recognize an apparent “fourth out.” If the third out is made during a play in which an appeal play is sustained on another runner, the appeal play decision takes precedence in determining the out. If there is more than one appeal during a play that ends a half-inning, the defense may elect to take the out that gives it the advantage. For the purpose of this rule, the defensive team has “left the field” when the pitcher and all infielders have left fair territory on their way to the bench or clubhouse.

 

Therefore, as long as the defensive team touches third or appeals to third, even if they've technically already recorded the third out at second, the run would not count.

[cubfan]

Thanks for the info. I and a few others thought that this was the case but a few other people on the team thought we were nuts.

[davearm]

Well done GrassBass.

 

Appeal at second only: run counts (provided the runner crosses HP before the ball arrives at 2B).

Appeal at third only: run doesn't count.

Appeal at both bases: run doesn't count.

[jjgman21]

this got me thinking about a what kind of situation that would happen in, where both runners ran too early, a bobble?

 

it occurred to me what a great play it would be for an outfielder to intentionally bobble a ball.

 

the runner is going to start running the second the outfielder touches the ball, but under the rules I don't think he's allowed to run until the ball is caught, in other words, possesses the ball. the runner has two choices, keep going and get called out on appeal, or return to the base until the ball is possessed, and by that time the outfielder has the ball and the runners momentum is going back to his original base.

 

is that an improper interpretation of the rule, or can the runner advance as soon as the ball is touched?

[cubfan]

this got me thinking about a what kind of situation that would happen in, where both runners ran too early, a bobble?

 

it occurred to me what a great play it would be for an outfielder to intentionally bobble a ball.

 

the runner is going to start running the second the outfielder touches the ball, but under the rules I don't think he's allowed to run until the ball is caught, in other words, possesses the ball. the runner has two choices, keep going and get called out on appeal, or return to the base until the ball is possessed, and by that time the outfielder has the ball and the runners momentum is going back to his original base.

 

is that an improper interpretation of the rule, or can the runner advance as soon as the ball is touched?

 

I'm pretty sure the rule is that the runners can tag and advance as soon as the OF touches the ball, not catch it. This was put in place to stop exactly what you are talking about from happening. I could be wrong though and I'm sure someone else here will know for sure.

[Garwilly]

this got me thinking about a what kind of situation that would happen in, where both runners ran too early, a bobble?

 

it occurred to me what a great play it would be for an outfielder to intentionally bobble a ball.

 

the runner is going to start running the second the outfielder touches the ball, but under the rules I don't think he's allowed to run until the ball is caught, in other words, possesses the ball. the runner has two choices, keep going and get called out on appeal, or return to the base until the ball is possessed, and by that time the outfielder has the ball and the runners momentum is going back to his original base.

 

is that an improper interpretation of the rule, or can the runner advance as soon as the ball is touched?

 

I'm pretty sure the rule is that the runners can tag and advance as soon as the OF touches the ball, not catch it. This was put in place to stop exactly what you are talking about from happening. I could be wrong though and I'm sure someone else here will know for sure.

 

You are correct. Initial contact by an OF is when the runners can go.

[jjgman21]

You are correct. Initial contact by an OF is when the runners can go.

 

and here it is

 

Rule 2.00 (Catch) Comment: A catch is legal if the ball is finally held by any fielder, even though juggled, or held by another fielder before it touches the ground. Runners may leave their bases the instant the first fielder touches the ball.

 

which brings me back to my original question, how on earth do two runners both leave early. I have a hard time believing the events described above happened to anyone other than a Cubs team.

[cubfan1955]

You are correct. Initial contact by an OF is when the runners can go.

 

and here it is

 

Rule 2.00 (Catch) Comment: A catch is legal if the ball is finally held by any fielder, even though juggled, or held by another fielder before it touches the ground. Runners may leave their bases the instant the first fielder touches the ball.

 

which brings me back to my original question, how on earth do two runners both leave early. I have a hard time believing the events described above happened to anyone other than a Cubs team.

I'd guess that both runners probably took off thinking the ball was not going to be caught.

[cubfan]

You are correct. Initial contact by an OF is when the runners can go.

 

and here it is

 

Rule 2.00 (Catch) Comment: A catch is legal if the ball is finally held by any fielder, even though juggled, or held by another fielder before it touches the ground. Runners may leave their bases the instant the first fielder touches the ball.

 

which brings me back to my original question, how on earth do two runners both leave early. I have a hard time believing the events described above happened to anyone other than a Cubs team.

 

I can't remember much other than I saw it on one of those highlight type shows that had strange plays. I do not remember where the runners were exactly either. Maybe it was 1st and 3rd and the guy on 1st was stealing or trying to make it to 3rd on a ball he thought was going to drop but was caught. The guy on 3rd thought it would drop too and ran home or did not try to go back to 3rd when he saw that the guy on 1st was going to be thrown out by a mile. I think it might have been the Astros but really do not remember.