Encouraging offensive numbers

[Ding Dong Johnson]

How does a player go about improving the consistency or timeliness of his hitting? Is there a way to somehow say this AB isn't really important so I'll save some for when it would really help? Or that this AB is really important so I'll give it a little extra knowing that it is coming at the expense of some future AB? Is there a way of changing your hitting approach so you hit .310 spread consistently over several games instead of .320 in streaks? What exactly are we asking the hitters to do?

 

Perform magic.

[OleMissCub]

How does a player go about improving the consistency or timeliness of his hitting? Is there a way to somehow say this AB isn't really important so I'll save some for when it would really help? Or that this AB is really important so I'll give it a little extra knowing that it is coming at the expense of some future AB? Is there a way of changing your hitting approach so you hit .310 spread consistently over several games instead of .320 in streaks? What exactly are we asking the hitters to do?

 

This isn't about demanding certain things from the hitters.

 

I'm not suggesting that our players suck because they can't hit in a timely fashion. I'm merely saying that we're losing some games because we don't get the hits when we need to. I'm not blaming the players for this necessarily. It's just one of those things that hasn't been going our way lately. That's all. Alot of timely hitting is just luck. We've been terribly unlucky so far this season. Again, not blaming the players for it....except Izturis, he's just awful.

 

Am I the only person here who has heard the term "timely hitting"? I've heard that from every coach since little league it seems.

[UBlink]

How does a player go about improving the consistency or timeliness of his hitting? Is there a way to somehow say this AB isn't really important so I'll save some for when it would really help? Or that this AB is really important so I'll give it a little extra knowing that it is coming at the expense of some future AB? Is there a way of changing your hitting approach so you hit .310 spread consistently over several games instead of .320 in streaks? What exactly are we asking the hitters to do?

 

This isn't about demanding certain things from the hitters.

 

I'm not suggesting that our players suck because they can't hit in a timely fashion. I'm merely saying that we're losing some games because we don't get the hits when we need to. I'm not blaming the players for this necessarily. It's just one of those things that hasn't been going our way lately. That's all. Alot of timely hitting is just luck. We've been terribly unlucky so far this season. Again, not blaming the players for it....except Izturis, he's just awful.

 

Am I the only person here who has heard the term "timely hitting"? I've heard that from every coach since little league it seems.

 

I've heard it a lot and I'm trying to understand it. I would think if coaches are talking about it they might have provided some hints on how to do it. "Johnny, you're hitting for good average but we're not getting timely hitting - here's what you need to do..."

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Am I the only person here who has heard the term "timely hitting"? I've heard that from every coach since little league it seems.

 

There is a thing as "timely" hitting, but it's not something that can be predicted or expected. The problem with this team for years is not a lack of timely hitting, it's not getting enough guys on base in front of the guys who are consistently good hitters.

[OleMissCub]

Am I the only person here who has heard the term "timely hitting"? I've heard that from every coach since little league it seems.

 

There is a thing as "timely" hitting, but it's not something that can be predicted or expected. The problem with this team for years is not a lack of timely hitting, it's not getting enough guys on base in front of the guys who are consistently good hitters.

 

I never said it should be predicted or expected (esp not with the Cubs). I merely put it as one of the key factors that you need to win a game. Starting pitching, timely hitting, and bullpen. If you get any 2 of those during a game, you'll likely be in a good position to win that game. Lately the Cubs have only been getting one of those three at a time.

[Magnetic Curses]

Thing is, you have to have 2 of 3 things to consistently win games: good starting pitching, timely hitting, and good bullpen work. Usually any two of those three things will put you in a good position to win a ball game.

 

This season the Cubs seem to have great starting pitching, crappy hitting, crappy bullpen or poor starting pitching, good hitting, crappy bullpen.

 

Yesterday we had good starting pitching and timely hitting at the same time.

 

i agree with everything you say except the timely hitting part. the phillies last season led the NL in runners LOB yet still led the NL in RS (i think).

 

if you give yourself a ton of opportunities, you will score a lot of runs and get a lot of wins. right now, it may not seem like it, but the BA w/ RISP will even out over time.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Am I the only person here who has heard the term "timely hitting"? I've heard that from every coach since little league it seems.

 

There is a thing as "timely" hitting, but it's not something that can be predicted or expected. The problem with this team for years is not a lack of timely hitting, it's not getting enough guys on base in front of the guys who are consistently good hitters.

 

I never said it should be predicted or expected (esp not with the Cubs). I merely put it as one of the key factors that you need to win a game. Starting pitching, timely hitting, and bullpen. If you get any 2 of those during a game, you'll likely be in a good position to win that game. Lately the Cubs have only been getting one of those three at a time.

 

What many are arguing is that there really isn't a distinction between timely hitting and plain ol' hitting. The problem solves itself when people are getting on base in a more consistent manner.

[OleMissCub]

Am I the only person here who has heard the term "timely hitting"? I've heard that from every coach since little league it seems.

 

There is a thing as "timely" hitting, but it's not something that can be predicted or expected. The problem with this team for years is not a lack of timely hitting, it's not getting enough guys on base in front of the guys who are consistently good hitters.

 

I never said it should be predicted or expected (esp not with the Cubs). I merely put it as one of the key factors that you need to win a game. Starting pitching, timely hitting, and bullpen. If you get any 2 of those during a game, you'll likely be in a good position to win that game. Lately the Cubs have only been getting one of those three at a time.

 

What many are arguing is that there really isn't a distinction between timely hitting and plain ol' hitting. The problem solves itself when people are getting on base in a more consistent manner.

 

Fair enough

[chuckywang]

Normally that would be encouraging, but since they are the CUBS, they turn encouraging stats into a 5-8 record.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Not sure that I have any concrete answers, but as always, I've got some numbers and a lot of questions.

 

Last 13 games........

 

CUBS have scored first in the game 10 times.

CUBS are 5-0 when they lead after 8 innings

CUBS are 5-1 when they lead after 7 innings

CUBS are 5-2 when they lead after 6 innings

CUBS are 0-5 in games decided by 1 run

CUBS are 0-1 in games decided by 2 runs

CUBS are 1-2 in games decided by 3 runs

 

                  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16    Total

CUBS             14   2   5   9   9  11  10   3   3   0   0   0   0   0   0   0      66
Opponents         6   3   0   6  14   1   6   3   5   3   0   1   0   1   0   0      49

 

04/02 - 04/25      AB    R    H   2b   3b   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
CUBS First 8      280   31   72   16    1    4  102   28   20   53  0.257  0.313  0.364  0.677
CUBS last 13      473   66  133   32    2   13  208   64   39   92  0.281  0.336  0.440  0.776

 

04/02 - 04/25        IP    H    R   ER   BB    K   HR  BB/9   K/9  HR/9  WHIP   ERA
CUBS First 8       69.0   58   35   33   25   56    9  3.26  7.30  1.17  1.20  4.30
CUBS Last 13      125.0  109   49   48   52  109   14  3.74  7.85  1.01  1.29  3.46

 

What worries me most, I think, is the distribution of runs by inning. While I would expect and hope that over time this evens itself out, I suspect that it won't. The drop off in runs scored in the last 2 innings seems to correlate with a severe drop in P/PA. I don't have the numbers on this, I'm relying on my own observation (purely anecdotal, I know). I can recall tracking, but not recording, P/PA through several of these games, and it seems to be a pattern that we'll be seeing 4.5 to 6.0 P/PA through the 5th or 6th inning, and then finish the game out with an overall of 3.6 or 3.7 P/PA. We're just not using the same approach at the end of the game as we do in the beginning. I hope I'm wrong.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Fred,

 

That's interesting. The hitters are getting more agressive later in the game like they are pressing to make something happen.

 

This was extremely prevalent in the extra innings game versus the Brewers. We allowed a bullpen pitcher to hold us scoreless for over four innings. This is a guy who hadn't thrown over two innings in a previous outing. We should have been forcing him to work deep counts so that Yost would be forced to remove him. Instead, several hitters in his last two innings swung at the first pitch.

[CubColtPacer]

I decided to test this theory out-so I am going to go back and look at the last several games where the Cubs where the game was either close or the Cubs were trailing, and then look at the P/PA numbers from the 7th inning onward. I'm going to do this going backwards-from the most recent date back.

 

4/24-5.0 P/PA

4/23-4.0 (12 innings)

4/22-3.1875 (10 innings)

4/20-4.0

4/18-3.64

4/17-4.38 (14 innings)

4/15-4.5

4/13-4.416

 

That's probably enough of a sample right there-that would take us all the way back to the first game after the snowed out game. It looks like the Cubs are not seeing less pitches overall in these close games late-they are actually seeing a little more.

[Fred Hornkohl]

I decided to test this theory out-so I am going to go back and look at the last several games where the Cubs where the game was either close or the Cubs were trailing, and then look at the P/PA numbers from the 7th inning onward. I'm going to do this going backwards-from the most recent date back.

 

4/24-5.0 P/PA

4/23-4.0 (12 innings)

4/22-3.1875 (10 innings)

4/20-4.0

4/18-3.64

4/17-4.38 (14 innings)

4/15-4.5

4/13-4.416

 

That's probably enough of a sample right there-that would take us all the way back to the first game after the snowed out game. It looks like the Cubs are not seeing less pitches overall in these close games late-they are actually seeing a little more.

 

Where are you finding inning by inning P/PA data ??

[CubColtPacer]

I decided to test this theory out-so I am going to go back and look at the last several games where the Cubs where the game was either close or the Cubs were trailing, and then look at the P/PA numbers from the 7th inning onward. I'm going to do this going backwards-from the most recent date back.

 

4/24-5.0 P/PA

4/23-4.0 (12 innings)

4/22-3.1875 (10 innings)

4/20-4.0

4/18-3.64

4/17-4.38 (14 innings)

4/15-4.5

4/13-4.416

 

That's probably enough of a sample right there-that would take us all the way back to the first game after the snowed out game. It looks like the Cubs are not seeing less pitches overall in these close games late-they are actually seeing a little more.

 

Where are you finding inning by inning P/PA data ??

 

I calculated them by going to the play by play of each game-it actually didn't take as long as it sounds to do. They really should have something where you can find inning by inning P/PA data though-if you already have pitch by pitch (and all the major sites do), it's not that hard to see up a connecting data set.