Mariotti

[Soriano12]

blah, I was more comfortable when I hated Mariotti and disagreed with everything he wrote.

 

This is a weird spot I am in.

[Master Shake]

IMHO, a good manager is just as important as good players..

 

I mean, come on... How many times has Dusty left pour pitchers in too long? IMHO, Its 65% Dusty's fault what happened to the pitching staff. How many times has he left them in longer than he should have? How many times did he put Nerfi in the lineup? How many questionable substitutions did he make?

 

Look, a skilled chess player can win playing with only pawns (It'd be difficult but possible), but a horrible chess player will lose even if he has all Queens to use.

 

We just ended up having the worst of both worlds.

[Backtobanks]

IMHO, a good manager is just as important as good players..

 

I mean, come on... How many times has Dusty left pour pitchers in too long? IMHO, Its 65% Dusty's fault what happened to the pitching staff. How many times has he left them in longer than he should have? How many times did he put Nerfi in the lineup? How many questionable substitutions did he make?

 

Look, a skilled chess player can win playing with only pawns (It'd be difficult but possible), but a horrible chess player will lose even if he has all Queens to use.

 

We just ended up having the worst of both worlds.

 

Everyone has their favorites, but I have trouble believing that any of these guys would win or lose more than 3 games compared to the others. Is there a VORM statistic to compare them. If tremendous players have a VORP of around 10, how much effect can one manager have over another assuming they are all basically adequate?

[Laura]

Mariotti still focused on the Cubs' managerial race in today's column.

 

But Sweet Lou has made it clear he likes the Cubs' situation nonetheless, which places Hendry, interim president John McDonough and a tower full of Tribsters in a quandary. Do they hire Piniella, the proven October warrior with three championship rings and a deep desire to win immediately in his career twilight after the Tampa Bay management debacle? Or do they stay true to the romantic local angle and hire popular ex-Cub Joe Girardi, who would be better for a gradual process mixing veterans with kids? Are they prepared to throw a huge deal at Piniella, whose final-year salary with the Devil Rays was to have been $4.4 million and could lead to expectations of more than $5 million annually with a major-market franchise? Or do they pay about half that price to Girardi, who has two years' salary coming from the Florida Marlins after his firing last week?

 

For that answer, the Cubs will have to decide what they want to be.

 

If they are serious about pursuing a star pitcher for their rotation, re-upping Aramis Ramirez and chasing Alfonso Soriano for the lineup, sign Piniella and go for the jugular.

 

If they are positioning themselves for a sale, selling more transparent hope with marketing man McDonough and dipping moderately into free agency, hire Girardi.

[goonys evil twin]

IMHO, a good manager is just as important as good players..

 

I mean, come on... How many times has Dusty left pour pitchers in too long? IMHO, Its 65% Dusty's fault what happened to the pitching staff. How many times has he left them in longer than he should have? How many times did he put Nerfi in the lineup? How many questionable substitutions did he make?

 

Look, a skilled chess player can win playing with only pawns (It'd be difficult but possible), but a horrible chess player will lose even if he has all Queens to use.

 

We just ended up having the worst of both worlds.

 

No, what is important is having a not incompetent manager. You need a guy who won't screw up. Dusty screwed up. The players are much more important than the manager. But like any organization, it doesn't take much for one bad apple to spoil the bunch.

[CoolHandLuke]

IMHO, a good manager is just as important as good players..

 

I mean, come on... How many times has Dusty left pour pitchers in too long? IMHO, Its 65% Dusty's fault what happened to the pitching staff. How many times has he left them in longer than he should have? How many times did he put Nerfi in the lineup? How many questionable substitutions did he make?

 

Look, a skilled chess player can win playing with only pawns (It'd be difficult but possible), but a horrible chess player will lose even if he has all Queens to use.

 

We just ended up having the worst of both worlds.

 

That analogy doesn't work unless you have chess pieces that move themselves. Also, if that chess player with only pawns is playing against a similarly skilled chess player with his normal pieces he will most certainly lose. Sure, Baker with a bunch of scrubs could beat some high school team but even Earl Weaver couldn't make the scrubs into a winning team against average major league competition.

[goonys evil twin]

Speaking of over glorifying the manager.

 

Mike Greenberg went absolutely gaga when he heard that Jim Leyland told his pitcher to throw strikes and not worry about the two guys on base when he was up 5-0. He acted like it was the sage wisdom that only a seasoned veteran manager could possibly give.

 

I yell that crap all the time! With a decent lead, screw the runners! Get the outs! It doesn't take a genius to get that right. Only a moron would suggest trying to be perfect in that situation.

[Backtobanks]

IMHO, a good manager is just as important as good players..

 

I mean, come on... How many times has Dusty left pour pitchers in too long? IMHO, Its 65% Dusty's fault what happened to the pitching staff. How many times has he left them in longer than he should have? How many times did he put Nerfi in the lineup? How many questionable substitutions did he make?

 

Look, a skilled chess player can win playing with only pawns (It'd be difficult but possible), but a horrible chess player will lose even if he has all Queens to use.

 

We just ended up having the worst of both worlds.

 

That analogy doesn't work unless you have chess pieces that move themselves. Also, if that chess player with only pawns is playing against a similarly skilled chess player with his normal pieces he will most certainly lose. Sure, Baker with a bunch of scrubs could beat some high school team but even Earl Weaver couldn't make the scrubs into a winning team against average major league competition.

 

I'm certainly not defending Dusty, but you can't expect much when your starting pitching is Z and 4 rookies, 2 of your star players (Barrett & DLee) are out for extended periods, and you have the likes of Neifi, Mabry, and Bynum on your team.

[goonys evil twin]

I'm certainly not defending Dusty, but you can't expect much when your starting pitching is Z and 4 rookies, 2 of your star players (Barrett & DLee) are out for extended periods, and you have the likes of Neifi, Mabry, and Bynum on your team.

 

I'm assuming this is the part of the post that was actually yours.

 

Baker had Maddux. He also had the chance to treat Prior and Wood better when they were healthy. He also had the chance to let Hill battle through his problems last year, which may have quickened his eventual, and some would say inevitable, improvement. He had a chance to not rely on Rusch when he sucked and let Hendry know he wasn't worth bringing back. He also had the chance to not make Neifi and Bynum such prominent members of the roster.

 

Excusing him for Barrett missing time is absurd. The team was lost long before that happened, and besides, catchers get hurt and miss time. It's a fact of baseball.

[Backtobanks]

I'm certainly not defending Dusty, but you can't expect much when your starting pitching is Z and 4 rookies, 2 of your star players (Barrett & DLee) are out for extended periods, and you have the likes of Neifi, Mabry, and Bynum on your team.

 

I'm assuming this is the part of the post that was actually yours.

 

Baker had Maddux. He also had the chance to treat Prior and Wood better when they were healthy. He also had the chance to let Hill battle through his problems last year, which may have quickened his eventual, and some would say inevitable, improvement. He had a chance to not rely on Rusch when he sucked and let Hendry know he wasn't worth bringing back. He also had the chance to not make Neifi and Bynum such prominent members of the roster.

 

Excusing him for Barrett missing time is absurd. The team was lost long before that happened, and besides, catchers get hurt and miss time. It's a fact of baseball.

 

Baker deserves much of the blame for what has happened the last two years, but as has been pointed out in the press conferences there's lots of blame to go around. Everyone hates excuses, but with injuries to Wood, Prior, DLee, Nomar, Barrett, etc. injuries have to be part of the reason the Cubs have been dismal for the last two years. As MacPhail pointed out in his press conference, too much of the payroll was on the DL at any given time. Dusty was a bad manager, but with the injuries they had and the players he had available, no manager would have been able to win consistently.

[goonys evil twin]

Baker deserves much of the blame for what has happened the last two years, but as has been pointed out in the press conferences there's lots of blame to go around. Everyone hates excuses, but with injuries to Wood, Prior, DLee, Nomar, Barrett, etc. injuries have to be part of the reason the Cubs have been dismal for the last two years. As MacPhail pointed out in his press conference, too much of the payroll was on the DL at any given time. Dusty was a bad manager, but with the injuries they had and the players he had available, no manager would have been able to win consistently.

 

Barrett was hurt after the 2006 season was buried. If you are going to play the excuse game, at least have the courtesy to not include the ones that didn't have anything to do with the team going in the tank.

[Backtobanks]

Baker deserves much of the blame for what has happened the last two years, but as has been pointed out in the press conferences there's lots of blame to go around. Everyone hates excuses, but with injuries to Wood, Prior, DLee, Nomar, Barrett, etc. injuries have to be part of the reason the Cubs have been dismal for the last two years. As MacPhail pointed out in his press conference, too much of the payroll was on the DL at any given time. Dusty was a bad manager, but with the injuries they had and the players he had available, no manager would have been able to win consistently.

 

Barrett was hurt after the 2006 season was buried. If you are going to play the excuse game, at least have the courtesy to not include the ones that didn't have anything to do with the team going in the tank.

 

But he did miss time for suspension.

[goonys evil twin]

Baker deserves much of the blame for what has happened the last two years, but as has been pointed out in the press conferences there's lots of blame to go around. Everyone hates excuses, but with injuries to Wood, Prior, DLee, Nomar, Barrett, etc. injuries have to be part of the reason the Cubs have been dismal for the last two years. As MacPhail pointed out in his press conference, too much of the payroll was on the DL at any given time. Dusty was a bad manager, but with the injuries they had and the players he had available, no manager would have been able to win consistently.

 

Barrett was hurt after the 2006 season was buried. If you are going to play the excuse game, at least have the courtesy to not include the ones that didn't have anything to do with the team going in the tank.

 

But he did miss time for suspension.

 

After the season was effectively over.

[Pinktermite]

I don't see why this argument is occuring here. You both are right. Dusty isn't the great strategist. Dusty also lost a lot of his better players over the course of the last two seasons. He himself was to blame, and so was his circumstances.

 

Had Dusty had better players, he would have been a better manager. Someone said that a manager doesn't make a team better, but he can make them worse. I tend to believe that Dusty does well when he has all the pieces, but not so well when things don't go his way.