Article on Baker in Wall St. Journal

[badgercub]

Even the Wall St. Journal has an article in it detailing the ineptitude of Baker. Don't have a link I read it in the actual paper this morning. Article talks about his inability to fill out the line up card and how his mishandling of Prior and Wood contributed to their injury problems, also raises concern over how he has and continues to overwork Z.

[NCCubFan]

If it's in the Journal, maybe the Trib suits will read it and finally realize they have a problem.

[C.C.]

Even the Wall St. Journal has an article in it detailing the ineptitude of Baker. Don't have a link I read it in the actual paper this morning. Article talks about his inability to fill out the line up card and how his mishandling of Prior and Wood contributed to their injury problems, also raises concern over how he has and continues to overwork Z.

 

I don't know about that? Wood problems were way before Baker and has Z really been overworked this year? And most of Prior injuries have been accidents...i.e. Linedrive off his elbow, collision with Giles....Or non-arm problems Achillies heel, Oblique Muscle...Etc...

[Banedon]

Even the Wall St. Journal has an article in it detailing the ineptitude of Baker. Don't have a link I read it in the actual paper this morning. Article talks about his inability to fill out the line up card and how his mishandling of Prior and Wood contributed to their injury problems, also raises concern over how he has and continues to overwork Z.

 

I don't know about that? Wood problems were way before Baker and has Z really been overworked this year? And most of Prior injuries have been accidents...i.e. Linedrive off his elbow, collision with Giles....Or non-arm problems Achillies heel, Oblique Muscle...Etc...

 

Baker was still part of the decision making process that had Wood pitching from the bullpen at the end of last year instead of having his surgery then. And Z has thrown a lot of pitches this year. I don't have the numbers, but I don't think he's thrown under 100 pitches most of the year, and he's near the top of pitcher abuse points. And in 2003, Prior threw a ton. His injury actually helped him get a break, if I remember right.

[badgercub]

Even the Wall St. Journal has an article in it detailing the ineptitude of Baker. Don't have a link I read it in the actual paper this morning. Article talks about his inability to fill out the line up card and how his mishandling of Prior and Wood contributed to their injury problems, also raises concern over how he has and continues to overwork Z.

 

I don't know about that? Wood problems were way before Baker and has Z really been overworked this year? And most of Prior injuries have been accidents...i.e. Linedrive off his elbow, collision with Giles....Or non-arm problems Achillies heel, Oblique Muscle...Etc...

 

Zambrano has thrown an ave. of 112 pitches per outing this year, that is tops in the Majors. In 2003 Prior threw more pitches per start, 113 than any other pitcher and Wood ave. 110. Coincidence or not, you decide. While Z may be able to handle the workload, why take the chance, this team is going nowhere.

[Caryatid]

has Z really been overworked this year?

 

He's second to Livan Hernandez in Pitcher Abuse Points. Again.

 

And most of Prior injuries have been accidents...i.e. Linedrive off his elbow, collision with Giles....Or non-arm problems Achillies heel, Oblique Muscle...Etc...

 

He spent the early season out with shoulder trouble. And its hard to say any chronic injury is not necessarily connected to overwork-just because its not his arm doesn't mean it wasn't caused by pitching too much.

[C.C.]

Even the Wall St. Journal has an article in it detailing the ineptitude of Baker. Don't have a link I read it in the actual paper this morning. Article talks about his inability to fill out the line up card and how his mishandling of Prior and Wood contributed to their injury problems, also raises concern over how he has and continues to overwork Z.

 

I don't know about that? Wood problems were way before Baker and has Z really been overworked this year? And most of Prior injuries have been accidents...i.e. Linedrive off his elbow, collision with Giles....Or non-arm problems Achillies heel, Oblique Muscle...Etc...

 

Baker was still part of the decision making process that had Wood pitching from the bullpen at the end of last year instead of having his surgery then. And Z has thrown a lot of pitches this year. I don't have the numbers, but I don't think he's thrown under 100 pitches most of the year, and he's near the top of pitcher abuse points. And in 2003, Prior threw a ton. His injury actually helped him get a break, if I remember right.

 

And did it really matter if Wood got surgery a month earlier? He still never really made it back for 2006. And Z is going to throw a lot of pitches. He's a power pitcher that walks and K's alot of batters. It's unavoidable unless he learns a bit more control.

[badgercub]

Here is another quote from the article:

 

"Take the case of Chicago Cubs manager Dusty Baker, who once argued that "players who walk clog up the bases." That led him to ask the front office to get rid of such patient hitters as Mark Bellhorn, who went on to become an important cog in Boston's World Series winning team. In 2002 (the year before Mr. Baker got there), the Cubs drew 585 walks, sixth-best in the NL. Last year they drew 419, last in the NL. Those 166 walks far outweigh all his decisions about pinch hitting, or whether to have a player bunt - and effectively negated the breakout performance of MVP candidate Derrek Lee."

 

--Allen St. John

Edited August 4, 2006 by badgercub

[Caryatid]

Even the Wall St. Journal has an article in it detailing the ineptitude of Baker. Don't have a link I read it in the actual paper this morning. Article talks about his inability to fill out the line up card and how his mishandling of Prior and Wood contributed to their injury problems, also raises concern over how he has and continues to overwork Z.

 

I don't know about that? Wood problems were way before Baker and has Z really been overworked this year? And most of Prior injuries have been accidents...i.e. Linedrive off his elbow, collision with Giles....Or non-arm problems Achillies heel, Oblique Muscle...Etc...

 

Baker was still part of the decision making process that had Wood pitching from the bullpen at the end of last year instead of having his surgery then. And Z has thrown a lot of pitches this year. I don't have the numbers, but I don't think he's thrown under 100 pitches most of the year, and he's near the top of pitcher abuse points. And in 2003, Prior threw a ton. His injury actually helped him get a break, if I remember right.

 

And did it really matter if Wood got surgery a month earlier? He still never really made it back for 2006. And Z is going to throw a lot of pitches. He's a power pitcher that walks and K's alot of batters. It's unavoidable unless he learns a bit more control.

 

Its one thing to throw "a lot of pitches." Its entirely another to lead the league in pitches thrown almost every year.

[Caryatid]

Here is another quote from the article:

 

"Take the case of Chicago Cubs manager Dusty Baker, who once argued that "players who walk clog up the bases." That led him to ask the front office to get rid of such patient hitters as Mark Bellhorn, who went on to become an important cog in Boston's World Series winning team. In 2002 (the year before Mr. Baker got there), the Cubs drew 585 walks, sixth-best in the NL. Last year they drew 419, last in the NL. Those 166 walks far outweigh all his decisions about pinch hitting, or whether to have a player bunt - and effectively negated the breakout performance of MVP candidate Derrek Lee."

 

--Allen St. John

 

Is there a link to the full article? I'm becoming a big fan of Mr. St. John.

[C.C.]

Even the Wall St. Journal has an article in it detailing the ineptitude of Baker. Don't have a link I read it in the actual paper this morning. Article talks about his inability to fill out the line up card and how his mishandling of Prior and Wood contributed to their injury problems, also raises concern over how he has and continues to overwork Z.

 

I don't know about that? Wood problems were way before Baker and has Z really been overworked this year? And most of Prior injuries have been accidents...i.e. Linedrive off his elbow, collision with Giles....Or non-arm problems Achillies heel, Oblique Muscle...Etc...

 

Baker was still part of the decision making process that had Wood pitching from the bullpen at the end of last year instead of having his surgery then. And Z has thrown a lot of pitches this year. I don't have the numbers, but I don't think he's thrown under 100 pitches most of the year, and he's near the top of pitcher abuse points. And in 2003, Prior threw a ton. His injury actually helped him get a break, if I remember right.

 

And did it really matter if Wood got surgery a month earlier? He still never really made it back for 2006. And Z is going to throw a lot of pitches. He's a power pitcher that walks and K's alot of batters. It's unavoidable unless he learns a bit more control.

 

Its one thing to throw "a lot of pitches." Its entirely another to lead the league in pitches thrown almost every year.

 

Can you show me the stats that say Z leads the league in pitches thrown every year ?

[badgercub]

Here is another quote from the article:

 

"Take the case of Chicago Cubs manager Dusty Baker, who once argued that "players who walk clog up the bases." That led him to ask the front office to get rid of such patient hitters as Mark Bellhorn, who went on to become an important cog in Boston's World Series winning team. In 2002 (the year before Mr. Baker got there), the Cubs drew 585 walks, sixth-best in the NL. Last year they drew 419, last in the NL. Those 166 walks far outweigh all his decisions about pinch hitting, or whether to have a player bunt - and effectively negated the breakout performance of MVP candidate Derrek Lee."

 

--Allen St. John

 

Is there a link to the full article? I'm becoming a big fan of Mr. St. John.

 

You have to be a subscriber. I don't know if i get a free online subscription with my regular one or not, so I am just reading the hard copy. The article was making the point that a manager doesn't really have a direct impact on wins and losses when looking at in game decision making (other than consistently leaving pitchers in too long) but cited Dusty for his horrible lineups.

[badgercub]

Even the Wall St. Journal has an article in it detailing the ineptitude of Baker. Don't have a link I read it in the actual paper this morning. Article talks about his inability to fill out the line up card and how his mishandling of Prior and Wood contributed to their injury problems, also raises concern over how he has and continues to overwork Z.

 

I don't know about that? Wood problems were way before Baker and has Z really been overworked this year? And most of Prior injuries have been accidents...i.e. Linedrive off his elbow, collision with Giles....Or non-arm problems Achillies heel, Oblique Muscle...Etc...

 

Baker was still part of the decision making process that had Wood pitching from the bullpen at the end of last year instead of having his surgery then. And Z has thrown a lot of pitches this year. I don't have the numbers, but I don't think he's thrown under 100 pitches most of the year, and he's near the top of pitcher abuse points. And in 2003, Prior threw a ton. His injury actually helped him get a break, if I remember right.

 

And did it really matter if Wood got surgery a month earlier? He still never really made it back for 2006. And Z is going to throw a lot of pitches. He's a power pitcher that walks and K's alot of batters. It's unavoidable unless he learns a bit more control.

 

Its one thing to throw "a lot of pitches." Its entirely another to lead the league in pitches thrown almost every year.

 

Can you show me the stats that say Z leads the league in pitches thrown every year ?

 

I can't believe you are even going to try and argue this point.

[C.C.]

but cited Dusty for his horrible lineups.

 

That I agree on!

[USSoccer]

Even the Wall St. Journal has an article in it detailing the ineptitude of Baker. Don't have a link I read it in the actual paper this morning. Article talks about his inability to fill out the line up card and how his mishandling of Prior and Wood contributed to their injury problems, also raises concern over how he has and continues to overwork Z.

 

Wood problems were way before Baker

 

You're wrong. In 1999 he had his TJ surgery, which was the culmination of a lifetime's worth of abuse. In 2000 he came back in May, and had your typical "back from elbow surgery" season. From 2001-2003 he made over 90 starts. His current woes began after a 2003 season that saw him throw 3545 pitches, which IIRC was the most of anyone in the league. 2003 also saw him throw the following #'s of pitches in games: 122 on April 12th, 141 pitches on May 10th, 121 on May 15th, 126 on June 29th, 129 on July 9th, 130 on July 19th, and 125 on August 27th. In total, he had 13 starts not including the postseason with more than 120 pitches.

 

Wood's problems begin the season after Baker arrived. There's no way around it. People can talk about mechanics or conditioning all they want, but the way he was worked in 2003 was asking for him to break down.

[NCCubFan]

From 2001-2003 he made over 90 starts.

Furthermore, he didn't miss a single start in either 2002 or 2003 (although he did leave a couple of games early in 2002 due to blisters).

[fiver]

Even the Wall St. Journal has an article in it detailing the ineptitude of Baker. Don't have a link I read it in the actual paper this morning. Article talks about his inability to fill out the line up card and how his mishandling of Prior and Wood contributed to their injury problems, also raises concern over how he has and continues to overwork Z.

 

I don't know about that? Wood problems were way before Baker and has Z really been overworked this year? And most of Prior injuries have been accidents...i.e. Linedrive off his elbow, collision with Giles....Or non-arm problems Achillies heel, Oblique Muscle...Etc...

 

Baker was still part of the decision making process that had Wood pitching from the bullpen at the end of last year instead of having his surgery then. And Z has thrown a lot of pitches this year. I don't have the numbers, but I don't think he's thrown under 100 pitches most of the year, and he's near the top of pitcher abuse points. And in 2003, Prior threw a ton. His injury actually helped him get a break, if I remember right.

 

And did it really matter if Wood got surgery a month earlier? He still never really made it back for 2006. And Z is going to throw a lot of pitches. He's a power pitcher that walks and K's alot of batters. It's unavoidable unless he learns a bit more control.

 

 

Yes. We were realistically out of playoff contention. How can you advocate playing an injured Wood just to chase a pipe dream? That's absurd. Baker and company are not clairvoyant. Although Wood's surgery was not successful, and he did not truly contribute this season, Baker and co. had no way of knowing that would happen. They believed at the time of the decision that he would contribute this season. They were sacrificing playing time this season for a month of playing time last season when we were out of contention. What am I missing? How can you advocate this?

 

Z is going to throw a lot of pitches, huh? You're damn right he's going to throw a lot of pitches under Baker. Explain to me why he continues to lead the league in pitches thrown when we are out of playoff contention this season?

[Banedon]

Can you show me the stats that say Z leads the league in pitches thrown every year ?

 

I don't have that. Here's what I have

 

Pitcher abuse points 2003

 

Kerry Wood 2nd

Mark Prior 3rd

Carlos Zambrano 11th

 

Pitcher abuse points 2004

 

Carlos Zambrano 3rd

Kerry Wood 16th

 

Pitcher abuse points 2005

 

Carlos Zambrano 2nd

Mark Prior 3rd

 

Pitcher abuse points 2006

 

Carlos Zambrano 3rd

[fiver]

CubbieChris,

 

You are asking us to explain much. Please answer our questions.

Edited August 4, 2006 by fiver

[C.C.]

Even the Wall St. Journal has an article in it detailing the ineptitude of Baker. Don't have a link I read it in the actual paper this morning. Article talks about his inability to fill out the line up card and how his mishandling of Prior and Wood contributed to their injury problems, also raises concern over how he has and continues to overwork Z.

 

Wood problems were way before Baker

 

You're wrong. In 1999 he had his TJ surgery, which was the culmination of a lifetime's worth of abuse. In 2000 he came back in May, and had your typical "back from elbow surgery" season. From 2001-2003 he made over 90 starts. His current woes began after a 2003 season that saw him throw 3545 pitches, which IIRC was the most of anyone in the league. 2003 also saw him throw the following #'s of pitches in games: 122 on April 12th, 141 pitches on May 10th, 121 on May 15th, 126 on June 29th, 129 on July 9th, 130 on July 19th, and 125 on August 27th. In total, he had 13 starts not including the postseason with more than 120 pitches.

 

Wood's problems begin the season after Baker arrived. There's no way around it. People can talk about mechanics or conditioning all they want, but the way he was worked in 2003 was asking for him to break down.

 

No offense but you can't blame this on Baker. Kerry Wood was bound to break down again because of piss pour mechenics. I agree that 2003 didn't help his cause, but I didn't see any fans complaining when we were thisclose from going to the world series.

 

It's like people complaining about Ozzie letting pitchers complete games in the playoffs and WS, and now his staff looks tired. If you have a chance at the ring all bets are off. Sorry I don't blame Baker for Riding Prior and Wood because every manager would do the same. Those were his strengths that year.

[fiver]

Even the Wall St. Journal has an article in it detailing the ineptitude of Baker. Don't have a link I read it in the actual paper this morning. Article talks about his inability to fill out the line up card and how his mishandling of Prior and Wood contributed to their injury problems, also raises concern over how he has and continues to overwork Z.

 

Wood problems were way before Baker

 

You're wrong. In 1999 he had his TJ surgery, which was the culmination of a lifetime's worth of abuse. In 2000 he came back in May, and had your typical "back from elbow surgery" season. From 2001-2003 he made over 90 starts. His current woes began after a 2003 season that saw him throw 3545 pitches, which IIRC was the most of anyone in the league. 2003 also saw him throw the following #'s of pitches in games: 122 on April 12th, 141 pitches on May 10th, 121 on May 15th, 126 on June 29th, 129 on July 9th, 130 on July 19th, and 125 on August 27th. In total, he had 13 starts not including the postseason with more than 120 pitches.

 

Wood's problems begin the season after Baker arrived. There's no way around it. People can talk about mechanics or conditioning all they want, but the way he was worked in 2003 was asking for him to break down.

 

No offense but you can't blame this on Baker. Kerry Wood was bound to break down again because of piss pour mechenics. I agree that 2003 didn't help his cause, but I didn't see any fans complaining when we were thisclose from going to the world series.

 

It's like people complaining about Ozzie letting pitchers complete games in the playoffs and WS, and now his staff looks tired. If you have a chance at the ring all bets are off. Sorry I don't blame Baker for Riding Prior and Wood because every manager would do the same. Those were his strengths that year.

 

Again, please explain the Wood situation last year. Why did he continue to pitch? Were we in playoff contention then? Please advise. Thanks.

[C.C.]

Can you show me the stats that say Z leads the league in pitches thrown every year ?

 

I don't have that. Here's what I have

 

Pitcher abuse points 2003

 

Kerry Wood 2nd

Mark Prior 3rd

Carlos Zambrano 11th

 

Pitcher abuse points 2004

 

Carlos Zambrano 3rd

Kerry Wood 16th

 

Pitcher abuse points 2005

 

Carlos Zambrano 2nd

Mark Prior 3rd

 

Pitcher abuse points 2006

 

Carlos Zambrano 3rd

 

Cool thanks! I was looking for these stats. I can't believe Zito is number 5.

[C.C.]

Even the Wall St. Journal has an article in it detailing the ineptitude of Baker. Don't have a link I read it in the actual paper this morning. Article talks about his inability to fill out the line up card and how his mishandling of Prior and Wood contributed to their injury problems, also raises concern over how he has and continues to overwork Z.

 

Wood problems were way before Baker

 

You're wrong. In 1999 he had his TJ surgery, which was the culmination of a lifetime's worth of abuse. In 2000 he came back in May, and had your typical "back from elbow surgery" season. From 2001-2003 he made over 90 starts. His current woes began after a 2003 season that saw him throw 3545 pitches, which IIRC was the most of anyone in the league. 2003 also saw him throw the following #'s of pitches in games: 122 on April 12th, 141 pitches on May 10th, 121 on May 15th, 126 on June 29th, 129 on July 9th, 130 on July 19th, and 125 on August 27th. In total, he had 13 starts not including the postseason with more than 120 pitches.

 

Wood's problems begin the season after Baker arrived. There's no way around it. People can talk about mechanics or conditioning all they want, but the way he was worked in 2003 was asking for him to break down.

 

No offense but you can't blame this on Baker. Kerry Wood was bound to break down again because of piss pour mechenics. I agree that 2003 didn't help his cause, but I didn't see any fans complaining when we were thisclose from going to the world series.

 

It's like people complaining about Ozzie letting pitchers complete games in the playoffs and WS, and now his staff looks tired. If you have a chance at the ring all bets are off. Sorry I don't blame Baker for Riding Prior and Wood because every manager would do the same. Those were his strengths that year.

 

Again, please explain the Wood situation last year. Why did he continue to pitch? Were we in playoff contention then? Please advise. Thanks.

 

I agree he should've been shut down, no doubt! But I think it's a rather moot point now...

[Banedon]

It's like people complaining about Ozzie letting pitchers complete games in the playoffs and WS, and now his staff looks tired. If you have a chance at the ring all bets are off. Sorry I don't blame Baker for Riding Prior and Wood because every manager would do the same. Those were his strengths that year.

 

That doesn't explain Zambrano this year, or last year.

[badgercub]

Even the Wall St. Journal has an article in it detailing the ineptitude of Baker. Don't have a link I read it in the actual paper this morning. Article talks about his inability to fill out the line up card and how his mishandling of Prior and Wood contributed to their injury problems, also raises concern over how he has and continues to overwork Z.

 

Wood problems were way before Baker

 

You're wrong. In 1999 he had his TJ surgery, which was the culmination of a lifetime's worth of abuse. In 2000 he came back in May, and had your typical "back from elbow surgery" season. From 2001-2003 he made over 90 starts. His current woes began after a 2003 season that saw him throw 3545 pitches, which IIRC was the most of anyone in the league. 2003 also saw him throw the following #'s of pitches in games: 122 on April 12th, 141 pitches on May 10th, 121 on May 15th, 126 on June 29th, 129 on July 9th, 130 on July 19th, and 125 on August 27th. In total, he had 13 starts not including the postseason with more than 120 pitches.

 

Wood's problems begin the season after Baker arrived. There's no way around it. People can talk about mechanics or conditioning all they want, but the way he was worked in 2003 was asking for him to break down.

 

No offense but you can't blame this on Baker. Kerry Wood was bound to break down again because of piss pour mechenics. I agree that 2003 didn't help his cause, but I didn't see any fans complaining when we were thisclose from going to the world series.

 

It's like people complaining about Ozzie letting pitchers complete games in the playoffs and WS, and now his staff looks tired. If you have a chance at the ring all bets are off. Sorry I don't blame Baker for Riding Prior and Wood because every manager would do the same. Those were his strengths that year.

 

you are dead wrong, people were openly questioning what Baker was doing in 2003 by leaving these guys in games for so long. I recall one game in particular, I believe it was in Florida when Baker left Wood in a game to throw well over 120 pitches in 90+ degree heat so he could get a complete game. Dusty thinks too much about the battle which causes him to lose the war. If I recall correctly, Z faded at the end of 2003 due to the fact he had never worked that many innings or thrown that many pitches in a season before.