Cubs' Managers and Their Managerial Careers After the Cubs

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

My earliest recollection of watching Cubs' baseball was the 1980 team.

 

Here is a list of Cub managers since 1980:

 

 

Preston Gomez

Joey Amalfitano

Lee Elia

Charlie Fox

Jim Frey

John Vukovich(only 2 games)

Gene Michael

Frank Lucchesi

Don Zimmer

Joe Altobelli(1 game)

Jim Essian

Jim Lefebvre

Tom Trebelhorn

Jim Riggleman

Don Baylor

Rene Lachmann(only 1 game)

Bruce Kimm

Dusty Baker(current)

 

I find it amazing that not one of these mangers has been hired as a MLB manager elsewhere after their managerial stint with the Cubs. Have any of these men been in the running for a MLB managerial job after the Cubs? It might be possible that some just wanted to coach, but I'm sure some of them would have liked to continue as head honcho in the dugout.

 

I would be curious to know if there are any other MLB teams that have had this many managers since 1980.

 

It would be nice to see a competent manager(and front office) that could be around for more than just a few years. This team needs some stability and the problem I fear is that the current Cubs' regime recognizes this and wants Dusty and company to be that stability.

[UMFan83]

Dusty will get another job, I guarentee it.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

Dusty will get another job, I guarentee it.

 

Dusty most likely will, but what does it say about the organization as whole when that is the list.

[Laura]

Dusty is a good choice for a veteran team that has been intact for awhile. It really depends on what the Cubs want to do.

 

I do think the main problem is Hendry (and MacPhail). The Cubs seem to lurch from plan to plan from season to season. I don't get that there's a multi-year plan ... and we haven't heard any multi-year plan talk for awhile, have we?

 

Remember Dusty saying that the plan was to win, to get to the playoffs, to get the series, to win the series? What happened to that plan?

 

I don't want Dusty back. I don't want Hendry back. I don't want MacPhail back, I don't want the Tribune back. I guess I'm on a multi-year plan and I'll accept taking a year to shed each of these anchors.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

It's often been said that the Cubs manager position was the La Brea Tar Pits for managers.

[goonys evil twin]

Stability is overrated. How many WS champs this decade won after the same GM and same manager were in place for 4 years? None I'd guess. Most of the recent WS winning managers won in their first or second year with the team. I see some value in stability of a GM, because a GM's job is about developing the organization, which takes time. But managers are a dime a dozen and can and should be tossed aside if they don't win in the first couple years. A failing business doesn't improve its prospects by keeping the same people in charge that led the business into failure. You don't improve as a student by using the same study techniques you used when failing classes.

 

A losing team that preaches stability is only going to maintain the status quo and keep losing.

[C.C.]

Stability is overrated. How many WS champs this decade won after the same GM and same manager were in place for 4 years? None I'd guess. Most of the recent WS winning managers won in their first or second year with the team. I see some value in stability of a GM, because a GM's job is about developing the organization, which takes time. But managers are a dime a dozen and can and should be tossed aside if they don't win in the first couple years. A failing business doesn't improve its prospects by keeping the same people in charge that led the business into failure. You don't improve as a student by using the same study techniques you used when failing classes.

 

A losing team that preaches stability is only going to maintain the status quo and keep losing.

 

Bingo! I agree!

[Derwood]

At least some have stuck in the majors. Baylor and Riggleman both held coaching positions with big league clubs. Riggs even had interviews for a few managerial openings (Seattle for one if I remember correctly). Riggs is now a minor league scout or instructor or some such thing for the Cardinals. I saw him on Opening Day for the Spikes this year.

[Soul]

I'm pretty sure Baker will slip right in to another Managerial position after he leaves the Cubs...

 

 

He went to the World Series prior to coming here, as a manager.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I'm pretty sure Baker will slip right in to another Managerial position after he leaves the Cubs...

 

 

He went to the World Series prior to coming here, as a manager.

 

Never know, Brenly won a WS before he came here, as a color man.

[goonys evil twin]

I'm pretty sure Baker will slip right in to another Managerial position after he leaves the Cubs...

 

 

He went to the World Series prior to coming here, as a manager.

 

Never know, Brenly won a WS before he came here, as a color man.

 

I would not be surprised at all if Dusty is ignored by other teams. His price tag is extremely high. I think only Torre makes more money (think about that one). No small market team is going to come calling, and he probably wouldn't be interested. Most big market teams are pretty stable right now in terms of manager. More and more teams are moving toward a more modern way of running things, and Dusty wouldn't stand a chance with those franchises. I think that if he wanted another job, he could eventually get one. But nobody is going to go after him like Hendry did, and he won't have the pick of the litter.

[NCCubFan]

My earliest recollection of watching Cubs' baseball was the 1980 team.

 

Here is a list of Cub managers since 1980:

 

 

Preston Gomez

Joey Amalfitano

Lee Elia

Charlie Fox

Jim Frey

John Vukovich(only 2 games)

Gene Michael

Frank Lucchesi

Don Zimmer

Joe Altobelli(1 game)

Jim Essian

Jim Lefebvre

Tom Trebelhorn

Jim Riggleman

Don Baylor

Rene Lachmann(only 1 game)

Bruce Kimm

Dusty Baker(current)

 

I find it amazing that not one of these mangers has been hired as a MLB manager elsewhere after their managerial stint with the Cubs.

Actually, Lee Elia has. He was the manager of the Phillies for the majority of the 1987 and 1988 seasons. In fact, he managed the Phillies for nearly as many games (254) as he did for the Cubs (285).

[Fred Hornkohl]

This phenomenon didn't just start in the 80's. Here's a post from my "oldies but goodies" file.............

 

The manager of the Chicago CUBS is pretty much a dead end job. Take a look at this illustrious list of baseball expertise and make your own judgement..........

 

                                          avg
Maqnager       From  To    W    L    pct  fin
Stan Hack        54  56  196  265  0.489  7.0
Bob Scheffing    57  59  208  254  0.450  6.7
Charlie Grimm    60  60    6   11  0.353  7.0
Lou Boudreau     60  60   54   83  0.394  7.0
Vedie Himsl      61  61   10   21  0.323  7.0
Harry Craft      61  61    7    9  0.438  7.0
El Tappe         61  62   46   70  0.397  8.0
Lou Klein        61  62   17   24  0.415  8.0
Charlie Metro    62  62   43   69  0.384  9.0
Bob Kennedy      63  65  182  198  0.479  7.7
Lou Klein        65  65   48   58  0.453  8.0
Leo Durocher     66  72  535  526  0.504  3.7
Whitey Lockman   72  74  157  162  0.492  4.3
Jim Marshall     74  76  175  218  0.445  5.3
Herman Franks    77  79  238  241  0.497  4.0
Joey Amalfitano  79  80   28   51  0.354  5.5
Preston Gomez    80  80   38   52  0.422  6.0
Joey Amalfitano  81  81   38   65  0.369  5.5
Lee Elia         82  83  127  158  0.446  5.0
Charley Fox      83  83   17   22  0.436  5.0
Jim Frey         84  86  196  182  0.519  3.3
John Vukovich    86  86    1    1  0.500  5.0
Gene Michael     86  87  114  124  0.479  5.5
Frank Lucchesi   87  87    8   17  0.320  6.0
Don Zimmer       88  91  265  258  0.507  3.5
Joe Altobelli    91  91    0    1  0.000  4.0
Jim Essian       91  91   59   63  0.484  4.0
Jim Lefebvre     92  93  162  162  0.500  4.0
Tom Trebelhorn   94  94   49   64  0.434  5.0
Jim Riggleman    95  99  374  419  0.472  4.0

 

Sixteen of the above skippers, more than half, took the CUBS field leadership position with no previous major league experience. Another six came to the CUBS with less than four years experience. Of the remaining managers with experience, you have......

 

Durocher    16
Boudreau    15
Grimm       14+
Zimmer       7+
Altobelli    5+
Trebelhorn   5
Fox          4+
Franks       4

 

Subsequent experience after leaving the CUBS is even more bleak. 21 of the 30 managers listed above, fully 70%, never managed in the major leagues again. Four more managed in the bigs again, but didn't last one full year. Another 3 lasted for one full year, but didn't make it to two years. Only Harry Craft (3) and Bob Scheffing (2+) had any significant time managing after the CUBS.

 

My choice of time frame here (1954-1998) is not random. A wonderful comparison can be drawn here. While the CUBS were busy shuffling 30 managers in and out during this 45 year span.... consider the Brooklyn / Los Angeles Dodgers. During that same 45 years, the Dodgers' managers were:

 

Walter Alston
Tommy Lasorda
Bill Russell

 

That's right. Three managers in 45 years, while the CUBS used 30. It might be argued that Russell might still be the Dodger's manager today were it not for a change in ownership of the franchise, but that's only speculation. Here's the real bottom line.......

 

          1954 thru 1998                            World Series
team                        W       L     pct    PA     W     L

Los Angeles Dodgers      3866    3235   0.544    15     6     5
Cincinnati Reds          3777    3315   0.533     9     3     3
Atlanta Braves           3649    3438   0.515    11     2     4
San Francisco Giants     3653    3454   0.514     6     1     2
St. Louis Cardinals      3638    3451   0.513     8     3     3
Pittsburgh Pirates       3603    3484   0.508    10     3     0
Philadelphia Phillies    3412    3653   0.483     7     1     2
Chicago Cubs             3331    3753   0.470     3     0     0

 

..... the CUBS may have 10 times as many managers, but the Dodgers have 5 times as many playoff appearanes, and 555 more regular season wins (12.3 per year) than the CUBS.

 

Baseball is, indeed, a business. I wish the Tribune Co. would get with the program and put together the best management team available, down to the field manager level, and quit recycling second rate people who have to be replaced every few years. Hell, they don't run the newspaper this way !!

[CubinNY]

Nice post Fred. Well done.

 

Winning and stability are directly proportional. With the Wrigley family it was often a matter of money. Since the tribune took over that hasn't been the case.

 

I don't know the amount of money the Cubs put into scouting, player development, and instructiors so I can't say they aren't getting the bang for the buck, but they've really failed in this area. To me that is the biggest problem. As much as I think Dusty needs to go, I'm not sure how much impact a manager has at improving the talent given to him. Dusty was clearly the wrong type of manager for a young team with a lot of talent. That's not to say that he wouldn't do a good job with a veteran team.

[mspcanes1]

I would not be surprised at all if Dusty is ignored by other teams. His price tag is extremely high. I think only Torre makes more money (think about that one). No small market team is going to come calling, and he probably wouldn't be interested. Most big market teams are pretty stable right now in terms of manager. More and more teams are moving toward a more modern way of running things, and Dusty wouldn't stand a chance with those franchises. I think that if he wanted another job, he could eventually get one. But nobody is going to go after him like Hendry did, and he won't have the pick of the litter.

 

not true. there is all kinds of talk about philly making a change.