Prior and Wood updates

[badger1679666666]

Unbelieveable. The guy has had 2 MAJOR injuries, both requiring surgery and a long rehab, and this translates into milking the organization? Give me a break.

 

Dude, it's CubbieRich. He doesn't like Wood, you have to take it with a grain of salt.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I don't advocate doing anything malicious, but I don't think hurrying him along at this point would be malicious. they say they are just building up arm strength at this point, but throwing 40 pitch pen session after 40 pitch pen session, then having 4-5 60 pitch sessions, next it will be 3-4 rehab starts instead of 1-2. at this point it doesn't appear to be building up arm strength, it appears the Cubs are babying a guy who shouldn't be in their future plans anyway. if his arm isn't going to hold up by increasing his pitch count 10-15 pitches each time out, it's not going to hold up.

 

Maybe your recovery from surgery to repair your labrum went a little better.

[jjgman21]

You could say that about Prior but not Wood. I've been frustrated with Wood's injuries but at least they required surgery and long rehab. Nobody would want that to happen to them, and you can't really question the legitimacy.

 

I think just the opposite. Prior is in the future plans. thus, you take care that he will be around for the next couple/few years. Wood is only in the future plans if the Cubs pick up an enormous option year at tremendous risk. if Prior burns out by being rushed, the team loses 3 years of a potentially outstanding starter at a arbitration rates. if Wood burns out by being rushed, the team makes the right decision and declines the option.

[Banedon]

You could say that about Prior but not Wood. I've been frustrated with Wood's injuries but at least they required surgery and long rehab. Nobody would want that to happen to them, and you can't really question the legitimacy.

 

I think just the opposite. Prior is in the future plans. thus, you take care that he will be around for the next couple/few years. Wood is only in the future plans if the Cubs pick up an enormous option year at tremendous risk. if Prior burns out by being rushed, the team loses 3 years of a potentially outstanding starter at a arbitration rates. if Wood burns out by being rushed, the team makes the right decision and declines the option.

 

You know they can decline the option and still re-sign him right? The Cubs have invested a lot in Wood over the years, and may still think they can reap benefits from him. I think you're a little too sure of what you think will happen.

[badger1679666666]

the latest I've seen, nothing new, except it doesn't sound as optimistic

 

Kerry Wood is still a couple weeks away from returning, at least, and Cubs manager Dusty Baker doesn't want to rush him, according to MLB.com. "No, you have to think about the big picture," Baker said. "You have to think about what's best for us and what's best for Woody at the same time. You don't want to rush him back and he ends up going on the DL for some reason."

(Updated 05/01/2006)

 

Sorry for the triple post but

 

He throws tuesday May 2nd. if all goes well, he's up for rehab start #1 May 6th. If all goes well he's up for rehab start #2 May 11th. If all goes well he's back for the tail end of the SD series at home or the Washington Series at home.May 14th, or May 16th.

 

this is right in line with what's been said and = a couple weeks. The two rehab starts = 10 days plus the 4 days rest from the last rehab start = a couple weeks. I don't see this as being any less optimistic, but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[srbin84]

You could say that about Prior but not Wood. I've been frustrated with Wood's injuries but at least they required surgery and long rehab. Nobody would want that to happen to them, and you can't really question the legitimacy.

 

I think just the opposite. Prior is in the future plans. thus, you take care that he will be around for the next couple/few years. Wood is only in the future plans if the Cubs pick up an enormous option year at tremendous risk. if Prior burns out by being rushed, the team loses 3 years of a potentially outstanding starter at a arbitration rates. if Wood burns out by being rushed, the team makes the right decision and declines the option.

 

I agree with your points. I'm just saying if we are talking about the player milking the team, Prior should be the subject, not Wood...that's if you question the legitimacy/severity of some of his injuries, which I do. A winter flu and a shoulder strain costing half the season....I know he's the golden boy and all, but I can't say a half season gone matches those injuries. I'm not saying he's soft, it could be a number of things. It could just be the Cubs being cautious, but even with an asset as valuable as Prior, I think there is a point where you are too cautious.

[jjgman21]

I don't advocate doing anything malicious, but I don't think hurrying him along at this point would be malicious. they say they are just building up arm strength at this point, but throwing 40 pitch pen session after 40 pitch pen session, then having 4-5 60 pitch sessions, next it will be 3-4 rehab starts instead of 1-2. at this point it doesn't appear to be building up arm strength, it appears the Cubs are babying a guy who shouldn't be in their future plans anyway. if his arm isn't going to hold up by increasing his pitch count 10-15 pitches each time out, it's not going to hold up.

 

Maybe your recovery from surgery to repair your labrum went a little better.

 

you amaze me. you spout your strict parent morality based rhetoric in rants, but when it comes to Kerry Wood, and basically only Kerry Wood, you're suddenly the empathetic nurturing parent. do you care more about the Cubs winning or the future of Kerry Wood?

[jjgman21]

the latest I've seen, nothing new, except it doesn't sound as optimistic

 

Kerry Wood is still a couple weeks away from returning, at least, and Cubs manager Dusty Baker doesn't want to rush him, according to MLB.com. "No, you have to think about the big picture," Baker said. "You have to think about what's best for us and what's best for Woody at the same time. You don't want to rush him back and he ends up going on the DL for some reason."

(Updated 05/01/2006)

 

Sorry for the triple post but

 

He throws tuesday May 2nd. if all goes well, he's up for rehab start #1 May 6th. If all goes well he's up for rehab start #2 May 11th. If all goes well he's back for the tail end of the SD series at home or the Washington Series at home.May 14th, or May 16th.

 

this is right in line with what's been said and = a couple weeks. The two rehab starts = 10 days plus the 4 days rest from the last rehab start = a couple weeks. I don't see this as being any less optimistic, but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

actually, it's not in line with what has been said. what has been said was beginning of May, mid-May if the knee surgery costs him some time, but it didn't according to the reports, so what was expected was the beginning of May. he's at 60 pitches right now. with the way he's been treated to this point, do you see the Cubs letting him throw 100 pitches by May 14-16? I don't. he'll do at least 4 rehab starts to 'build up his arm strength'.

[jjgman21]

You could say that about Prior but not Wood. I've been frustrated with Wood's injuries but at least they required surgery and long rehab. Nobody would want that to happen to them, and you can't really question the legitimacy.

 

I think just the opposite. Prior is in the future plans. thus, you take care that he will be around for the next couple/few years. Wood is only in the future plans if the Cubs pick up an enormous option year at tremendous risk. if Prior burns out by being rushed, the team loses 3 years of a potentially outstanding starter at a arbitration rates. if Wood burns out by being rushed, the team makes the right decision and declines the option.

 

You know they can decline the option and still re-sign him right? The Cubs have invested a lot in Wood over the years, and may still think they can reap benefits from him. I think you're a little too sure of what you think will happen.

 

of course I am aware of that. you ready to risk another season relying on him to help get the Cubs to the playoffs? even if he's fabulous when he comes back, I'm not ready to take that risk, for the same reasons I told everyone who wanted to sign AJB that they are insane.

[badger1679666666]

the latest I've seen, nothing new, except it doesn't sound as optimistic

 

Kerry Wood is still a couple weeks away from returning, at least, and Cubs manager Dusty Baker doesn't want to rush him, according to MLB.com. "No, you have to think about the big picture," Baker said. "You have to think about what's best for us and what's best for Woody at the same time. You don't want to rush him back and he ends up going on the DL for some reason."

(Updated 05/01/2006)

 

Sorry for the triple post but

 

He throws tuesday May 2nd. if all goes well, he's up for rehab start #1 May 6th. If all goes well he's up for rehab start #2 May 11th. If all goes well he's back for the tail end of the SD series at home or the Washington Series at home.May 14th, or May 16th.

 

this is right in line with what's been said and = a couple weeks. The two rehab starts = 10 days plus the 4 days rest from the last rehab start = a couple weeks. I don't see this as being any less optimistic, but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

actually, it's not in line with what has been said. what has been said was beginning of May, mid-May if the knee surgery costs him some time, but it didn't according to the reports, so what was expected was the beginning of May. he's at 60 pitches right now. with the way he's been treated to this point, do you see the Cubs letting him throw 100 pitches by May 14-16? I don't. he'll do at least 4 rehab starts to 'build up his arm strength'.

 

Not being a smart ass, but honestly, what reports said the knee didn't cost him any time. I thought it set him back at LEAST a week. If he's back by the White Sox series, I'll be happy, if he's back before then ecstatic. If it's AFTER the Sox series, I'll be disappointed.

 

I don't think any of us know how many rehab starts, but I always thought it was going to be 2 for some reason.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I don't advocate doing anything malicious, but I don't think hurrying him along at this point would be malicious. they say they are just building up arm strength at this point, but throwing 40 pitch pen session after 40 pitch pen session, then having 4-5 60 pitch sessions, next it will be 3-4 rehab starts instead of 1-2. at this point it doesn't appear to be building up arm strength, it appears the Cubs are babying a guy who shouldn't be in their future plans anyway. if his arm isn't going to hold up by increasing his pitch count 10-15 pitches each time out, it's not going to hold up.

 

Maybe your recovery from surgery to repair your labrum went a little better.

 

you amaze me. you spout your strict parent morality based rhetoric in rants, but when it comes to Kerry Wood, and basically only Kerry Wood, you're suddenly the empathetic nurturing parent. do you care more about the Cubs winning or the future of Kerry Wood?

 

What are you talking about?

 

First of all, I am still recovering from my labrum surgery. I had my surgery about 2 weeks after Wood had his, and I am still building up arm strength. It has been an extremely long process, and I imagine it would be a lot longer if I were an MLB pitcher. It's not as simple as throwing 40 then 50 then 60; the healing does not allow it to work that way. 50 may be just fine one day and 35 might be the max the next. I will cut him slack to a reasonable extent because I know first-hand how difficult of a journey it is for him to get back on the mound. Unless you have been through the experience, who are you to preach how he should or shouldn't be coming back?

 

And to answer your final question, this is a game. I don't care if it's Kerry Wood, Jim Edmonds, or , you do not sacrifice the health and future of a player just for a victory. Period.

[Jon]

There's no way Wood has four rehab starts unless something goes wrong. After two with no setbacks, he'll be able to throw over 90 pitches with the Cubs.

[goonys evil twin]

the latest I've seen, nothing new, except it doesn't sound as optimistic

 

Kerry Wood is still a couple weeks away from returning, at least, and Cubs manager Dusty Baker doesn't want to rush him, according to MLB.com. "No, you have to think about the big picture," Baker said. "You have to think about what's best for us and what's best for Woody at the same time. You don't want to rush him back and he ends up going on the DL for some reason."

(Updated 05/01/2006)

 

Sorry for the triple post but

 

He throws tuesday May 2nd. if all goes well, he's up for rehab start #1 May 6th. If all goes well he's up for rehab start #2 May 11th. If all goes well he's back for the tail end of the SD series at home or the Washington Series at home.May 14th, or May 16th.

 

this is right in line with what's been said and = a couple weeks. The two rehab starts = 10 days plus the 4 days rest from the last rehab start = a couple weeks. I don't see this as being any less optimistic, but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

actually, it's not in line with what has been said. what has been said was beginning of May, mid-May if the knee surgery costs him some time, but it didn't according to the reports, so what was expected was the beginning of May. he's at 60 pitches right now. with the way he's been treated to this point, do you see the Cubs letting him throw 100 pitches by May 14-16? I don't. he'll do at least 4 rehab starts to 'build up his arm strength'.

 

Not being a smart ass, but honestly, what reports said the knee didn't cost him any time. I thought it set him back at LEAST a week. If he's back by the White Sox series, I'll be happy, if he's back before then ecstatic. If it's AFTER the Sox series, I'll be disappointed.

 

I don't think any of us know how many rehab starts, but I always thought it was going to be 2 for some reason.

 

I heard a week to 10 days expected, and I believe it was actually 11 days. Mid-may would be right in-line with the talk all season.

[Banedon]

You could say that about Prior but not Wood. I've been frustrated with Wood's injuries but at least they required surgery and long rehab. Nobody would want that to happen to them, and you can't really question the legitimacy.

 

I think just the opposite. Prior is in the future plans. thus, you take care that he will be around for the next couple/few years. Wood is only in the future plans if the Cubs pick up an enormous option year at tremendous risk. if Prior burns out by being rushed, the team loses 3 years of a potentially outstanding starter at a arbitration rates. if Wood burns out by being rushed, the team makes the right decision and declines the option.

 

You know they can decline the option and still re-sign him right? The Cubs have invested a lot in Wood over the years, and may still think they can reap benefits from him. I think you're a little too sure of what you think will happen.

 

of course I am aware of that. you ready to risk another season relying on him to help get the Cubs to the playoffs? even if he's fabulous when he comes back, I'm not ready to take that risk, for the same reasons I told everyone who wanted to sign AJB that they are insane.

 

Neither you or I are the Cubs. Neither of us have any input. Your criticism of the Cubs handling of Wood is based of an assumption you're making about how the Cubs will handle Wood's contract situation. My point is that if Wood is re-signed, which is a possibility, no matter how vehement you are in your opposition to it, then rushing Wood back is not in the best interest of the Cubs.

[jjgman21]

You could say that about Prior but not Wood. I've been frustrated with Wood's injuries but at least they required surgery and long rehab. Nobody would want that to happen to them, and you can't really question the legitimacy.

 

I think just the opposite. Prior is in the future plans. thus, you take care that he will be around for the next couple/few years. Wood is only in the future plans if the Cubs pick up an enormous option year at tremendous risk. if Prior burns out by being rushed, the team loses 3 years of a potentially outstanding starter at a arbitration rates. if Wood burns out by being rushed, the team makes the right decision and declines the option.

 

You know they can decline the option and still re-sign him right? The Cubs have invested a lot in Wood over the years, and may still think they can reap benefits from him. I think you're a little too sure of what you think will happen.

 

of course I am aware of that. you ready to risk another season relying on him to help get the Cubs to the playoffs? even if he's fabulous when he comes back, I'm not ready to take that risk, for the same reasons I told everyone who wanted to sign AJB that they are insane.

 

Neither you or I are the Cubs. Neither of us have any input. Your criticism of the Cubs handling of Wood is based of an assumption you're making about how the Cubs will handle Wood's contract situation. My point is that if Wood is re-signed, which is a possibility, no matter how vehement you are in your opposition to it, then rushing Wood back is not in the best interest of the Cubs.

 

my criticism of the Cubs handling of Wood is based on my strong opinion that doing anything but letting Wood go at the end of this year is a stupid thing to do and therefore he should be let go, not how I think they will handle it.

[jjgman21]

There's no way Wood has four rehab starts unless something goes wrong. After two with no setbacks, he'll be able to throw over 90 pitches with the Cubs.

 

you really expect him to go from 60 pitches (if it's even 60, I think he's been at about 45 the past three weeks) to 90 pitches in two rehab starts after the way he's been handled up to this point?

[Jon]

Since there still seems to be a lot of misconception of what the towel drill actually is (not sure if it was caused by Carroll or someone else), I posted this a few weeks ago:

 

I'm not sure how many pitchers actually use it. I've only seen Prior and a few pitchers for Cuba do it during the WBC. But the towel drill is just a simple, short activity of snapping a towel against someone's glove to get mechanics in line for a few minutes just before throwing. It doesn't take the place of throwing. It does nothing in terms of building up strength or endurance.

 

There's no throwing involved at all. I've never seen Wood do it or seen a report saying that he does it. In fact, I'd be surprised if Prior wasn't the only Cub who does it.

 

And it has received way, way too much attention the past couple of months.

Edited May 1, 2006 by Jon

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Since there still seems to be a lot of misconception of what the towel drill actually is (not sure if it was caused by Carroll or someone else), I posted this a few weeks ago:

 

I'm not sure how many pitchers actually use it. I've only seen Prior and a few pitchers for Cuba do it during the WBC. But the towel drill is just a simple, short activity of snapping a towel against someone's glove to get mechanics in line for a few minutes just before throwing. It doesn't take the place of throwing. It does nothing in terms of building up strength or endurance.

 

I've never seen Wood do it or see a report saying that he does it. In fact, I'd be surprised if Prior wasn't the only Cub who does it.

 

And it has received way, way too much attention the past couple of months.

 

Agreed. I thought someone also pointed out once that it was also a USC thing.

[jjgman21]

 

And to answer your final question, this is a game. I don't care if it's Kerry Wood, Jim Edmonds, or , you do not sacrifice the health and future of a player just for a victory. Period.

 

you make it seem like the Cubs are handling Peruvian infants. we are talking about millionaires here. the health and future as a human being will not be impacted, only the health and future as a baseball player.

 

as most of you know, I am usually a bit of a Cubs apologist, but with where he is at right now, throwing 45 pitch sessions over and over and over again, I just don't see him making it back for another month, assuming they will progress at the same rate they have been.

 

I'm done with it. I love Kerry Wood. I moved back from Oregon to follow Cubs baseball after seeing his 19 K game. but the future plans should not be Kerry Wood, so the Cubs should get out of him what they can right fricken now.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

 

And to answer your final question, this is a game. I don't care if it's Kerry Wood, Jim Edmonds, or , you do not sacrifice the health and future of a player just for a victory. Period.

 

you make it seem like the Cubs are handling Peruvian infants. we are talking about millionaires here. the health and future as a human being will not be impacted, only the health and future as a baseball player.

 

I don't care if it's a millionaire or a peasant. You cannot consciously ruin their skills for their trade for selfish reasons.

[badger1679666666]

 

I'm done with it. I love Kerry Wood. I moved back from Oregon to follow Cubs baseball after seeing his 19 K game. but the future plans should not be Kerry Wood, so the Cubs should get out of him what they can right fricken now.

 

Ok, assume this IS the thought process. Would you like to have kerry wood for 3 starts and then have him in the DL because his arm strength wasn't high enough, or would you like to have him for 20 starts and then send him packing?

Edited May 1, 2006 by badger

[Jon]

There's no way Wood has four rehab starts unless something goes wrong. After two with no setbacks, he'll be able to throw over 90 pitches with the Cubs.

 

you really expect him to go from 60 pitches (if it's even 60, I think he's been at about 45 the past three weeks) to 90 pitches in two rehab starts after the way he's been handled up to this point?

I think he'll definitely be in that range if all goes well after two rehab starts. He's scheduled to throw 4 innings tomorrow (no reported pitch count) and has been throwing a lot despite the setback a week or so ago. Rehab stints don't usually go beyond two, I don't believe, so if they thought he was going to need four, they'd probably have him just focus on building up arm strength right now by throwing more BP.

[goonys evil twin]

 

And to answer your final question, this is a game. I don't care if it's Kerry Wood, Jim Edmonds, or , you do not sacrifice the health and future of a player just for a victory. Period.

 

you make it seem like the Cubs are handling Peruvian infants. we are talking about millionaires here. the health and future as a human being will not be impacted, only the health and future as a baseball player.

 

as most of you know, I am usually a bit of a Cubs apologist, but with where he is at right now, throwing 45 pitch sessions over and over and over again, I just don't see him making it back for another month, assuming they will progress at the same rate they have been.

 

I'm done with it. I love Kerry Wood. I moved back from Oregon to follow Cubs baseball after seeing his 19 K game. but the future plans should not be Kerry Wood, so the Cubs should get out of him what they can right fricken now.

 

Let me get this straight. The Cubs knew Kerry Wood needed shoulder surgery. They knew this, and their response was to move him from the rotation to the bullpen, and bring him out for multiple outings, right up until a couple days before the surgery. They knew he needed surgery, kept throwing him out there despite knowing he needed shoulder surgery, and you think they are babying him?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

 

Wood has milked this organization long enough. No way this team should consider anything for Wood except a bus ticket out of town next year. No wonder he is being kept away from the team and especially the clubhouse/dugout. The team knows that having the younger players look at such a chronically injured albatross can do nothing but instill the wrong work ethic attitude. Better he throw his funny towel drills and make believe 5 inning games in Arizona, far away from the 'real' players.

 

Did Wood run over your dog or steal your girlfriend?

[jjgman21]

 

And to answer your final question, this is a game. I don't care if it's Kerry Wood, Jim Edmonds, or , you do not sacrifice the health and future of a player just for a victory. Period.

 

you make it seem like the Cubs are handling Peruvian infants. we are talking about millionaires here. the health and future as a human being will not be impacted, only the health and future as a baseball player.

 

as most of you know, I am usually a bit of a Cubs apologist, but with where he is at right now, throwing 45 pitch sessions over and over and over again, I just don't see him making it back for another month, assuming they will progress at the same rate they have been.

 

I'm done with it. I love Kerry Wood. I moved back from Oregon to follow Cubs baseball after seeing his 19 K game. but the future plans should not be Kerry Wood, so the Cubs should get out of him what they can right fricken now.

 

Let me get this straight. The Cubs knew Kerry Wood needed shoulder surgery. They knew this, and their response was to move him from the rotation to the bullpen, and bring him out for multiple outings, right up until a couple days before the surgery. They knew he needed surgery, kept throwing him out there despite knowing he needed shoulder surgery, and you think they are babying him?

 

hey, putting words in my mouth. not unexpected as that is your MO.

 

what I am saying is not letting him throw more than 45 pitches for a month straight is babying him.

 

on March 31, he was expected to throw 50-55 pitches to hitters. he threw 25. on April 15, two weeks later, he threw 51 pitches. two weeks after that he threw 39 pitches.

 

if people think he's going to go from 40-50 pitches to 90- 100 in one bullpen session and two minor leagure rehab starts, approximately 15 days, when he hasn't bumped up his pitch count in over a month, you're awefully optimistic, which is a complete 180 for many of you arguing that he will.