Top 50 by BP

[Holy Cow]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=silver/060418

 

I think its a pretty good list, except that Dunn should be ahead of Bay, and I'd put Santana at #2. Plus Zimmerman should be way higher. Discuss

[Danny82]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=silver/060418

 

I think its a pretty good list, except that Dunn should be ahead of Bay, and I'd put Santana at #2. Plus Zimmerman should be way higher. Discuss

 

Dunn ahead of Bay? Why?

[badger1679666666]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=silver/060418

 

I think its a pretty good list, except that Dunn should be ahead of Bay, and I'd put Santana at #2. Plus Zimmerman should be way higher. Discuss

 

Dunn ahead of Bay? Why?

 

Because everyone on NSBB is obsessed with Dunn.

 

:wink:

[Transmogrified Tiger]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=silver/060418

 

I think its a pretty good list, except that Dunn should be ahead of Bay, and I'd put Santana at #2. Plus Zimmerman should be way higher. Discuss

 

Dunn ahead of Bay? Why?

 

The last 2 years their production is nearly identical, Dunn is a year younger, and Dunn has shown he can put up those numbers without ridiculous BABIP numbers. Maybe Bay is an exception and will be able to consistently put up a .360 BABIP, but if he can't then his numbers are going to drop.

[srbin84]

Dunn is a better offensive player. He has as much legit power as anyone in baseball and is a left handed hitter.

[minnesotacubsfan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=silver/060418

 

I think its a pretty good list, except that Dunn should be ahead of Bay, and I'd put Santana at #2. Plus Zimmerman should be way higher. Discuss

 

Dunn ahead of Bay? Why?

 

Because everyone on NSBB is obsessed with Dunn.

 

:wink:

 

DONT BE HATIN'

 

[-(

[srbin84]

BTW, I'd like to see the Cubs win the bidding war for the Matsuzaka if he ever comes here.

[Holy Cow]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=silver/060418

 

I think its a pretty good list, except that Dunn should be ahead of Bay, and I'd put Santana at #2. Plus Zimmerman should be way higher. Discuss

 

Dunn ahead of Bay? Why?

 

Well, do you at least agree that Dunn should be higher than Sizemore and Chavez, as he's had a .370 OBP 4 out of 5 seasons. Of the two, Chavez is the only one with a season above 3.55. As for Dunn and Bay, its pretty much a toss up. They've traded off being statistically superior the last 3 seasons. Don't forget that, even though Bay has less experience, Dunn is actually a year younger.

 

edit: beat me to it

Edited April 19, 2006 by Holy Cow

[Danny82]

Dunn is a better offensive player.

 

He is? Why? Because he hits more homers?

 

They are very similar in their hitting capacity with Dunn having more pure power and Bay being able to hit at a higher clip. That doesn't even take into consideration Bay's large advantage in defense and speed.

[srbin84]

Dunn is a better offensive player.

 

He is? Why? Because he hits more homers?

 

They are very similar in their hitting capacity with Dunn having more pure power and Bay being able to hit at a higher clip. That doesn't even take into consideration Bay's large advantage in defense and speed.

 

If nothing else, Dunn has the potential to improve his batting average and become the best hitter in the game. He doesn't have a lot of baseball experience.

[Danny82]

I'm sorry. I respect your opinion and acknowledge Dunn to be a great player, but there is NO WAY IN THE WORLD that he ever becomes the "best hitter in the game". Not a chance.

[elconq05]

You guys don't think Lee should be ranked higher? He could have been MVP last year, but only #13 on this list?

 

I thought he'd be a little higher than #13.

 

And I think Zambrano is a tad high at #11.

[srbin84]

You guys don't think Lee should be ranked higher? He could have been MVP last year, but only #13 on this list?

 

I thought he'd be a little higher than #13.

 

And I think Zambrano is a tad high at #11.

 

I wouldn't have minded seeing Lee a spot or two higher, but I think Z was that high because of his ability to stay healthy, which is invaluable for a pitcher.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I'm sorry. I respect your opinion and acknowledge Dunn to be a great player, but there is NO WAY IN THE WORLD that he ever becomes the "best hitter in the game". Not a chance.

 

He was in the top 10 in OPS last year for the NL and had a batting average almost 40 points lower than the next worst player. Any sort of good/lucky year BABIP-wise is going to put him among the best hitters in the game easily(since he's already right there).

[Danny82]

Until he shows he can hit for average, he can't ever be considered the best hitter in the game.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Until he shows he can hit for average, he can't ever be considered the best hitter in the game.

 

Why not? If he's the most productive then he's the best hitter. Hitting for a lower average makes it much much harder, but it doesn't exclude him.

[Danny82]

Because, in my mind, you can't be the "best hitter in the game" if you don't at least have at least a near .300 batting average. I don't care if he has a .400 OBP and a .600 SLG, if he is batting .250 while he does it, he can't be the "best hitter in the game". It's counter-intuitive.

[mul21]

Until he shows he can hit for average, he can't ever be considered the best hitter in the game.

 

Why not? If he's the most productive then he's the best hitter. Hitting for a lower average makes it much much harder, but it doesn't exclude him.

 

I think by definition it does. Being the best hitter would be getting a hit the highest % of the time. You think about guys considered to be the best hitters of all time (Ted Williams, Wade Boggs, Tony Gwynn) and they all had multiple batting titles and very high career BAs. What you're referring to is maybe better called most productive offensive player?

[goonys evil twin]

Because, in my mind, you can't be the "best hitter in the game" if you don't at least have at least a near .300 batting average. I don't care if he has a .400 OBP and a .600 SLG, if he is batting .250 while he does it, he can't be the "best hitter in the game". It's counter-intuitive.

 

But OBP and SLG are much more telling about a guys production. I highly doubt he'll be able to outproduce everybody in the game hitting .250, but it could happen, and if he did, he'd be the best. You can't just dog on him for the AVG, when it's not as important as other things.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Because, in my mind, you can't be the "best hitter in the game" if you don't at least have at least a near .300 batting average. I don't care if he has a .400 OBP and a .600 SLG, if he is batting .250 while he does it, he can't be the "best hitter in the game". It's counter-intuitive.

 

So you distinguish between "best hitter" and "best offensive player"? Seems unncessary to me.

[Danny82]

Because, in my mind, you can't be the "best hitter in the game" if you don't at least have at least a near .300 batting average. I don't care if he has a .400 OBP and a .600 SLG, if he is batting .250 while he does it, he can't be the "best hitter in the game". It's counter-intuitive.

 

But OBP and SLG are much more telling about a guys production. I highly doubt he'll be able to outproduce everybody in the game hitting .250, but it could happen, and if he did, he'd be the best. You can't just dog on him for the AVG, when it's not as important as other things.

 

But wouldn't you agree that if two players consistently had similar OBPs, the player who consistently has the higher BA is the better hitter? And probably more productive as well?

[mul21]

Because, in my mind, you can't be the "best hitter in the game" if you don't at least have at least a near .300 batting average. I don't care if he has a .400 OBP and a .600 SLG, if he is batting .250 while he does it, he can't be the "best hitter in the game". It's counter-intuitive.

 

But OBP and SLG are much more telling about a guys production. I highly doubt he'll be able to outproduce everybody in the game hitting .250, but it could happen, and if he did, he'd be the best. You can't just dog on him for the AVG, when it's not as important as other things.

 

Production wasn't part of the debate. It was simply could Dunn be the best hitter in the game. And with his propensity for the strikeout, even though the big swing is where he gets his power, I don't think he will ever be considered the best hitter in the game, There are too many other guys with much higher BAs and similar power numbers that I would not want to see in an RBI situation.

[goonys evil twin]

Because, in my mind, you can't be the "best hitter in the game" if you don't at least have at least a near .300 batting average. I don't care if he has a .400 OBP and a .600 SLG, if he is batting .250 while he does it, he can't be the "best hitter in the game". It's counter-intuitive.

 

But OBP and SLG are much more telling about a guys production. I highly doubt he'll be able to outproduce everybody in the game hitting .250, but it could happen, and if he did, he'd be the best. You can't just dog on him for the AVG, when it's not as important as other things.

 

Production wasn't part of the debate. It was simply could Dunn be the best hitter in the game. And with his propensity for the strikeout, even though the big swing is where he gets his power, I don't think he will ever be considered the best hitter in the game, There are too many other guys with much higher BAs and similar power numbers that I would not want to see in an RBI situation.

 

Whether he's considered that doesn't matter. A lot of people who refuse to enter the 21st century (Joe Morgan) decide what players are "considered" to be. If he's the most productive, he's the best hitter. If you want to talk about hitting for average, that's a seperate topic. The best hitter for average is the guy with the highest average. The best hitter is the most productive hitter. I don't think that will be Dunn, but it could be, even if he has a low AVG and high K totals.

[elconq05]

You guys don't think Lee should be ranked higher? He could have been MVP last year, but only #13 on this list?

 

I thought he'd be a little higher than #13.

 

And I think Zambrano is a tad high at #11.

 

I wouldn't have minded seeing Lee a spot or two higher, but I think Z was that high because of his ability to stay healthy, which is invaluable for a pitcher.

 

You're not considered the 11th best player in the league because you can stay healthy.

He's the 3rd highest ranked pitcher on the list.

 

All of these pitchers come before Zambrano if I am starting a team:

- Jo. Santana

- C. Carpenter

- J. Peavy

- R. Oswalt

- D. Willis

- J. Beckett

 

Ben Sheets would have been on my list, but he just can't stay healthy. And I'll gamble with Beckett.

[srbin84]

You guys don't think Lee should be ranked higher? He could have been MVP last year, but only #13 on this list?

 

I thought he'd be a little higher than #13.

 

And I think Zambrano is a tad high at #11.

 

I wouldn't have minded seeing Lee a spot or two higher, but I think Z was that high because of his ability to stay healthy, which is invaluable for a pitcher.

 

You're not considered the 11th best player in the league because you can stay healthy.

He's the 3rd highest ranked pitcher on the list.

 

All of these pitchers come before Zambrano if I am starting a team:

- Jo. Santana

- C. Carpenter

- J. Peavy

- R. Oswalt

- D. Willis

- J. Beckett

 

Ben Sheets would have been on my list, but he just can't stay healthy. And I'll gamble with Beckett.

 

Santana, maybe. Peavy and Oswalt are about equal to Z. I wouldn't pick any of the rest though. Carp and Beckett have bad injury history.