Trade Offer

[ChiCubsFan]

Need some help on this one. It's an 18 team dynasty league. Meaning you keep all your players.

 

Offer is I would get: McCann, Bonderman, Mench, and Carlos Gonzalez (OF prospect from the DBacks) for Frank Thomas, Johan Santana, and Rafael Soriano

 

Here's my team:

 

C-Lieberthal

1b-Nick Johnson

2b-Giles

SS-Peralta

3b-Ensberg

IF-Walker

LF-Holliday

CF-Sullivan

RF-Pena

Util-Thomas

Bench-Patterson

Bench-S. Drew

Bench-Catalanotto

Bench-J. Valentin

Bench-A. Boone

 

SP-J. Santana

SP-M. Buehrle

SP-Prior

RP-Dempster

RP-D. Wheeler

RP-Crain

P-R. Soriano

P-Benoit

P-M. Maroth

Bench-Hermanson

Bench-Jerome Williams

Bench-J. Benoit

Bench-Randy Wolf

Bench-Mike Hampton

 

Should I do it?

Edited April 1, 2006 by ChiCubsFan

[nilodnayr]

No, you are already too thin in the rotation, trading away Johan would be suicide.

[ChiCubsFan]

No, you are already too thin in the rotation, trading away Johan would be suicide.

 

Well Bonderman would replace him, although nowhere near as well. I have a ton of minor league prospects on the way (Anibal Sanchez, Jon Lester, Mike Pelfrey, Colin Balester, Chris Volstad, Aaron Thompson) plus Guzman and Marshall. I'm thinking of not doing it, but Bonderman has the potential to be an ace and I could really use the offense of Mench in the OF/UTIL and McCann at catcher. Plus, Gonzales is a top 50 prospect who is compared by BA to Carlos Beltran when he's on...a little bit slower but a little bit better hitter.

 

Just wanted to list the reasons why I'm even considering it.

[nilodnayr]

No, you are already too thin in the rotation, trading away Johan would be suicide.

 

Well Bonderman would replace him, although nowhere near as well. I have a ton of minor league prospects on the way (Anibal Sanchez, Jon Lester, Mike Pelfrey, Colin Balester, Chris Volstad, Aaron Thompson) plus Guzman and Marshall. I'm thinking of not doing it, but Bonderman has the potential to be an ace and I could really use the offense of Mench in the OF/UTIL and McCann at catcher. Plus, Gonzales is a top 50 prospect who is compared by BA to Carlos Beltran when he's on...a little bit slower but a little bit better hitter.

 

Just wanted to list the reasons why I'm even considering it.

 

Well it will definitely be suicide for this year. Bonderman (even though hes still very young) is just one of those guys that has not lived up to his potential and although he gets to pitch half his games in Comerica, he unfortunately has to pitch all of his games for the Tigers who are a fairly inept organizaton. I'd wait until bonderman actually starts to realize his potential to start considering the trade. Your OF is thin, but you should look to backfill it with prospects who have a better chance of realizing their potential and staying healthy than you pitching prospects. Mench isnt a huge improvement anyway. In the counter offer I would upgrade from Mench to one of the other guy's better OFs. I really like McCann, but there are a lot of catching prospects about to hit the bigs, look to pick some one up there if theres any one available.

[ChiCubsFan]

No, you are already too thin in the rotation, trading away Johan would be suicide.

 

Well Bonderman would replace him, although nowhere near as well. I have a ton of minor league prospects on the way (Anibal Sanchez, Jon Lester, Mike Pelfrey, Colin Balester, Chris Volstad, Aaron Thompson) plus Guzman and Marshall. I'm thinking of not doing it, but Bonderman has the potential to be an ace and I could really use the offense of Mench in the OF/UTIL and McCann at catcher. Plus, Gonzales is a top 50 prospect who is compared by BA to Carlos Beltran when he's on...a little bit slower but a little bit better hitter.

 

Just wanted to list the reasons why I'm even considering it.

 

Well it will definitely be suicide for this year. Bonderman (even though hes still very young) is just one of those guys that has not lived up to his potential and although he gets to pitch half his games in Comerica, he unfortunately has to pitch all of his games for the Tigers who are a fairly inept organizaton. I'd wait until bonderman actually starts to realize his potential to start considering the trade. Your OF is thin, but you should look to backfill it with prospects who have a better chance of realizing their potential and staying healthy than you pitching prospects. Mench isnt a huge improvement anyway. In the counter offer I would upgrade from Mench to one of the other guy's better OFs. I really like McCann, but there are a lot of catching prospects about to hit the bigs, look to pick some one up there if theres any one available.

 

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. The only problem is there isn't anyone to pick up. It's a deep league with very knowledgable owners. I probably will turn it down for now though. Making that trade would complete kill the slight chance I have to squeak into the playoffs. But seriously this league is crazy. If you can think of any deep sleepers that might be available please let me know. All the guys like Brazelton, Gavin Floyd, Dave Bush, etc. who are young and had great springs have been taken. I have room to pick someone up because I just put Hampton on the DL, but there's nobody even worth picking up.

[nilodnayr]

No, you are already too thin in the rotation, trading away Johan would be suicide.

 

Well Bonderman would replace him, although nowhere near as well. I have a ton of minor league prospects on the way (Anibal Sanchez, Jon Lester, Mike Pelfrey, Colin Balester, Chris Volstad, Aaron Thompson) plus Guzman and Marshall. I'm thinking of not doing it, but Bonderman has the potential to be an ace and I could really use the offense of Mench in the OF/UTIL and McCann at catcher. Plus, Gonzales is a top 50 prospect who is compared by BA to Carlos Beltran when he's on...a little bit slower but a little bit better hitter.

 

Just wanted to list the reasons why I'm even considering it.

 

Well it will definitely be suicide for this year. Bonderman (even though hes still very young) is just one of those guys that has not lived up to his potential and although he gets to pitch half his games in Comerica, he unfortunately has to pitch all of his games for the Tigers who are a fairly inept organizaton. I'd wait until bonderman actually starts to realize his potential to start considering the trade. Your OF is thin, but you should look to backfill it with prospects who have a better chance of realizing their potential and staying healthy than you pitching prospects. Mench isnt a huge improvement anyway. In the counter offer I would upgrade from Mench to one of the other guy's better OFs. I really like McCann, but there are a lot of catching prospects about to hit the bigs, look to pick some one up there if theres any one available.

 

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. The only problem is there isn't anyone to pick up. It's a deep league with very knowledgable owners. I probably will turn it down for now though. Making that trade would complete kill the slight chance I have to squeak into the playoffs. But seriously this league is crazy. If you can think of any deep sleepers that might be available please let me know. All the guys like Brazelton, Gavin Floyd, Dave Bush, etc. who are young and had great springs have been taken. I have room to pick someone up because I just put Hampton on the DL, but there's nobody even worth picking up.

 

Well if youre looking for starting pitching and Heilman and Liriano (I know, not starters now) arent available, what about Bannister or Baker? If your looking for a catcher what about Doumit?

[ChiCubsFan]

No, you are already too thin in the rotation, trading away Johan would be suicide.

 

Well Bonderman would replace him, although nowhere near as well. I have a ton of minor league prospects on the way (Anibal Sanchez, Jon Lester, Mike Pelfrey, Colin Balester, Chris Volstad, Aaron Thompson) plus Guzman and Marshall. I'm thinking of not doing it, but Bonderman has the potential to be an ace and I could really use the offense of Mench in the OF/UTIL and McCann at catcher. Plus, Gonzales is a top 50 prospect who is compared by BA to Carlos Beltran when he's on...a little bit slower but a little bit better hitter.

 

Just wanted to list the reasons why I'm even considering it.

 

Well it will definitely be suicide for this year. Bonderman (even though hes still very young) is just one of those guys that has not lived up to his potential and although he gets to pitch half his games in Comerica, he unfortunately has to pitch all of his games for the Tigers who are a fairly inept organizaton. I'd wait until bonderman actually starts to realize his potential to start considering the trade. Your OF is thin, but you should look to backfill it with prospects who have a better chance of realizing their potential and staying healthy than you pitching prospects. Mench isnt a huge improvement anyway. In the counter offer I would upgrade from Mench to one of the other guy's better OFs. I really like McCann, but there are a lot of catching prospects about to hit the bigs, look to pick some one up there if theres any one available.

 

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. The only problem is there isn't anyone to pick up. It's a deep league with very knowledgable owners. I probably will turn it down for now though. Making that trade would complete kill the slight chance I have to squeak into the playoffs. But seriously this league is crazy. If you can think of any deep sleepers that might be available please let me know. All the guys like Brazelton, Gavin Floyd, Dave Bush, etc. who are young and had great springs have been taken. I have room to pick someone up because I just put Hampton on the DL, but there's nobody even worth picking up.

 

Well if youre looking for starting pitching and Heilman and Liriano (I know, not starters now) arent available, what about Bannister or Baker? If your looking for a catcher what about Doumit?

 

Baker, Bannister, Doumit, Heilman, and Liriano are all taken.

[nilodnayr]

 

Baker, Bannister, Doumit, Heilman, and Liriano are all taken.

 

Hmm, ok, what about either cinci catcher, mccann, torrealba, or navarro? Looks like theres no pitching available.

[ChiCubsFan]

 

Baker, Bannister, Doumit, Heilman, and Liriano are all taken.

 

Hmm, ok, what about either cinci catcher, mccann, torrealba, or navarro? Looks like theres no pitching available.

 

Navarro and McCann are taken. If you are talking about Javier Valentin as the cinci catcher...I already have him. And Torrealba is availabe but on the 15 day DL. Valentin should be fairly productive if he is given enough playing time, but he is 31 so thats why I was interested in getting McCann. What I really need is young hitting, preferably outfield. It's just everyone in this league is taken. Which is why the trade for Mench and Gonzlaes was so intriguing. I did decline it though because, as you said, I couldnt afford to lose Santana.

[ChiCubsFan]

Same league, but I got a new offer

 

I'd be giving up Johan Santana and Mark Prior

 

and I'd get Rich Harden, Brandon McCarthy, and Francisco Liriano.

 

Once again, this is a dynasty league.

[ChiCubsFan]

Or I could just trade Johan and get Liriano/McCarthy/LaRoche

[nilodnayr]

OK, based on your last two posts it sounds like you could get Prior for Harden and LaRoche. Which LaRoche? Although, IMO it really doesnt matter. I think I'd trade Prior for Harden straight up. I'm not that high on Adam, but if its Andy, then its a steal! I wouldnt trade Johan unless I'm uber wowed. I love Liriano (have him on my team), but McCarthy is a risk. I can easily see him flame out. Although he was impressive at the end of last year he sucked big time in the minors for most of the year. LaRue is probably gonna get dealt because of his contract, opening up time for Valentin. I know hes not a long term solution, but at least hes not Lieberthal. I wouldnt give Santana up for anything less than two young very good players to fill your holes.

[ChiCubsFan]

OK, based on your last two posts it sounds like you could get Prior for Harden and LaRoche. Which LaRoche? Although, IMO it really doesnt matter. I think I'd trade Prior for Harden straight up. I'm not that high on Adam, but if its Andy, then its a steal! I wouldnt trade Johan unless I'm uber wowed. I love Liriano (have him on my team), but McCarthy is a risk. I can easily see him flame out. Although he was impressive at the end of last year he sucked big time in the minors for most of the year. LaRue is probably gonna get dealt because of his contract, opening up time for Valentin. I know hes not a long term solution, but at least hes not Lieberthal. I wouldnt give Santana up for anything less than two young very good players to fill your holes.

 

Well the only way he would include Harden is if he got Santana. He wouldn't do the deal without Santana. But if he was giving up Harden for just Santana, he wouldnt include Liriano or Andy LaRoche. I eventually decided to trade Santana and Prior and got back Andy LaRoche, Liriano, McCarthy, and Harden. I know McCarthy wasn't great last year in the minors but I'd hardly call a 3.92 ERA with 130 K's to only 32 BB in only 119.3 IP in AAA "sucking big time". I think he's going to be a very good setup man this year and eventually move into the rotation. Liriano is just filthy. I expect him to move into the rotation by the end of the year, or at worst, the start of next year. Harden isn't as good as Santana, but he isn't too far behind. Andy LaRoche is a top 20 prospect and arguably the best 3b prospect. Considering I have Todd Walker, Aaron Boone, and Frank Thomas as my best options for my IF and Util Positions, I really could use LaRoche. It was a very tough decision, but I got a ton of talent back. As you maybe know, Liriano is said by everyone in the Twins organization to look very similar, if not better, than Santana at the same age. I think the trade hurts me a little bit this year (assuming Prior would come back and be healthy) but I think I'll come out the winner in this trade in the long run.

 

I also agree with what you are saying about Valentin. I was offered Brian McCann for Rafael Soriano, but I'm hesitant on it. I really like Soriano as a setup man and I think by the end of the year, he'll be closer. I think between Lieberthal and Valentin, I should be fine.

[nilodnayr]

OK, based on your last two posts it sounds like you could get Prior for Harden and LaRoche. Which LaRoche? Although, IMO it really doesnt matter. I think I'd trade Prior for Harden straight up. I'm not that high on Adam, but if its Andy, then its a steal! I wouldnt trade Johan unless I'm uber wowed. I love Liriano (have him on my team), but McCarthy is a risk. I can easily see him flame out. Although he was impressive at the end of last year he sucked big time in the minors for most of the year. LaRue is probably gonna get dealt because of his contract, opening up time for Valentin. I know hes not a long term solution, but at least hes not Lieberthal. I wouldnt give Santana up for anything less than two young very good players to fill your holes.

 

Well the only way he would include Harden is if he got Santana. He wouldn't do the deal without Santana. But if he was giving up Harden for just Santana, he wouldnt include Liriano or Andy LaRoche. I eventually decided to trade Santana and Prior and got back Andy LaRoche, Liriano, McCarthy, and Harden. I know McCarthy wasn't great last year in the minors but I'd hardly call a 3.92 ERA with 130 K's to only 32 BB in only 119.3 IP in AAA "sucking big time". I think he's going to be a very good setup man this year and eventually move into the rotation. Liriano is just filthy. I expect him to move into the rotation by the end of the year, or at worst, the start of next year. Harden isn't as good as Santana, but he isn't too far behind. Andy LaRoche is a top 20 prospect and arguably the best 3b prospect. Considering I have Todd Walker, Aaron Boone, and Frank Thomas as my best options for my IF and Util Positions, I really could use LaRoche. It was a very tough decision, but I got a ton of talent back. As you maybe know, Liriano is said by everyone in the Twins organization to look very similar, if not better, than Santana at the same age. I think the trade hurts me a little bit this year (assuming Prior would come back and be healthy) but I think I'll come out the winner in this trade in the long run.

 

I also agree with what you are saying about Valentin. I was offered Brian McCann for Rafael Soriano, but I'm hesitant on it. I really like Soriano as a setup man and I think by the end of the year, he'll be closer. I think between Lieberthal and Valentin, I should be fine.

 

I think it was a good trade. You got a pirate's booty for two players. And my comment regarding McCarthy sucking big time was definitely overblown. I didn't really follow how well he did after about 1/4-1/3rd of the way through the season, but I'm pretty sure he was sucking big time (like 5ish ERA) at that point in the season. I think Liriano will get into the rotation before you think. Gardenhire is already talking to the papers about it. All it takes is one Lohse tantrum or maybe even two more bad starts for Liriano to get his chance. I think if you break the trade down, Harden for Prior favors you, Liriano, LaRoche, McCarthy for Santana is about even. And the best part about it, if Liriano does get a job in the next month, you dont lose any IP for 2006.