Marshall as #4 starter?

[Blueheart05]

Koronka instead of Wuertz? What in the world are they thinking?

 

 

Well, maybe not instead of but it's an option. More than likely, there will be room for Koronka along with Wuertz in the 'pen. I don't see Novoa making the squad; they will probably send him to AAA to build up his arm.

[Danny82]

Does it seem odd to anyone else that the Cubs are actually starting to make some decent moves? In the past it seemed like they were less willing to take a chance on a young player or give a spot to a more deserving player.

 

This year, Marshal and Hill both have a shot to win a job, Pagan probably made the team, Murton and Cedeno are starting and Theriot actually has a small chance to break camp.

Maybe some in the org. are realizing you have to change if things haven't been working.

 

That's possible. Or maybe these younger players are better than ones that the Cubs have had in the past.

[Danny82]

 

LaMar is so ridiculous in his trade demands I'm surprised Hendry even considered dealing with TB.

 

I thought LeMar was fired after the 2005 season?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Koronka instead of Wuertz? What in the world are they thinking?

 

 

Well, maybe not instead of but it's an option. More than likely, there will be room for Koronka along with Wuertz in the 'pen. I don't see Novoa making the squad; they will probably send him to AAA to build up his arm.

 

Zambrano

Maddux

Williams

Rusch

Marshall

 

Dempster

Ohman

Howry

Eyre

Williamson

Wuertz

Ryu/Hill/Guzman

 

Some of the roles may be a little different, but that's 14 guys that should be in front of Koronka, not even including Novoa.

 

Of course, the "having a 12 man staff is excessive and ultimately hurtful, especially if we go to a 4 man rotation early on" stuff is implied.

[Blueheart05]

Koronka instead of Wuertz? What in the world are they thinking?

 

 

Well, maybe not instead of but it's an option. More than likely, there will be room for Koronka along with Wuertz in the 'pen. I don't see Novoa making the squad; they will probably send him to AAA to build up his arm.

 

Zambrano

Maddux

Williams

Rusch

Marshall

 

Dempster

Ohman

Howry

Eyre

Williamson

Wuertz

Ryu/Hill/Guzman

 

Some of the roles may be a little different, but that's 14 guys that should be in front of Koronka, not even including Novoa.

 

Of course, the "having a 12 man staff is excessive and ultimately hurtful, especially if we go to a 4 man rotation early on" stuff is implied.

 

I think Koronka has moved ahead of Ryu on the Cubs reliever possibilities list because he hasn't given up a run. Plus, Ryu's already been optioned while John-John Koronka remains with the team. Guzman has also been sent down but he, Hill, and Williams (per Bruce Miles) may be in the running for the 5th spot depending on performance in the coming days.

[Outshined_One]

LaMar is so ridiculous in his trade demands I'm surprised Hendry even considered dealing with TB.

 

I thought LeMar was fired after the 2005 season?

 

He was, but his replacement (Hunsicker I think?) hasn't been much of a step up.

[A New Era]

I hate to be a downer, but this is what happens when you miss out on your primary FA target, overpay for mediocre bench players and average pitchers, and want to offer a monster extension to a firstbaseman with one career year under his belt. The budget forces you to consider youngsters.

 

Furcal wasn't going to help the rotation (and he was their primary FA target). I think it's about time the team use it's own capable farmhands.

 

Passing on Furcal meant we needed our leadoff hitter (in the organization's eyes). We dealt Nolasco (a solid pitching prospect) for Pierre. Mitre and Pinto weren't anything great. I'm a fan of throwing talent into the ML mix and seeing if they can hack it. Put Hill, Marshall, Ryu, Guzman and Nolasco into the mix for and you'll come out with at least one player contributing every 5 days. Let's be realistic. Some days they're going to dominate and other days they're going to get lit up. That's the nature of rookie SPs, but we need those cheap options, especially with Zambrano being the only SP we can count on (Maddux is gone next season).

 

Hendry said he wanted both Furcal and Pierre all along (he said that early on in the process). It was never one or the other. Remember, he wanted them to bat 1 and 2. Thus, he planned all along to give up prospects for Pierre...I'm also not saying that I expect the rookies to be dominant but they have ability and there's no reason not to utilize them until the veterans are available.

 

Hendry is on crack. I win. :lol:

 

But seriously, I think that statement was just thrown out there in case Hendry didn't get his main man, Furcal. A provable opinion? No, but it's mine. :D

 

Really? I thought he was being honest about wanting the first two guys to be speedy. I also think that the Cubs inability to sign Furcal, coupled with Walker's speed deficiencies (and defensive issues), made Hairston the next best option (in Hendry's mind) for the second slot. Lugo at 2B was preferred to Hairston but when that seemed too costly they decided to make it a "competition" at second.

 

In either case, I'm glad the Cubs are willing to take some risks with younger players and willing to play the hot hand so to speak... It would be real easy to break camp with Williams as 4 but giving Marshall a chance is being progressive IMO.

 

I agree, and I'm very pleased at that. I assume we all read the recent cubs.com article about how Williams will have to prove himself during his last start or else one of the rookies might actually take his spot.

 

I've actually be praying for this. I want to see both Marshall AND Guzman in April. Might as well give more rookies a chance, then you're more likely to see one of them break through and succeed. And possibly be our 5th starter this year. .

[YearofDaCubs]

Does it seem odd to anyone else that the Cubs are actually starting to make some decent moves? In the past it seemed like they were less willing to take a chance on a young player or give a spot to a more deserving player.

 

This year, Marshal and Hill both have a shot to win a job, Pagan probably made the team, Murton and Cedeno are starting and Theriot actually has a small chance to break camp.

I think Hendry and Baker know their job is on the line.

[goonys evil twin]

I have a feeling that a lot of this relates to the Cubs believing Williams has motivation issues. Jerome talked about a possible move to the pen like it was no big deal. Some might consider that to be a sign of a lack of desire to be great.

[Blueheart05]

I have a feeling that a lot of this relates to the Cubs believing Williams has motivation issues. Jerome talked about a possible move to the pen like it was no big deal. Some might consider that to be a sign of a lack of desire to be great.

 

I guess that's one way to look at it. When I read his quote I thought it had more to do with him wanting to be on a ML roster even if it means he loses his starting job. At this point, Williams isn't a lock to stay in the League. If the Cubs hadn't traded for him, he might still be "working things out" in the Giants' minor league system. Ryu made a very similar statement about wanting to make the team in any pitching capacity.

[goonys evil twin]

I have a feeling that a lot of this relates to the Cubs believing Williams has motivation issues. Jerome talked about a possible move to the pen like it was no big deal. Some might consider that to be a sign of a lack of desire to be great.

 

I guess that's one way to look at it. When I read his quote I thought it had more to do with him wanting to be on a ML roster even if it means he loses his starting job. At this point, Williams isn't a lock to stay in the League. If the Cubs hadn't traded for him, he might still be "working things out" in the Giants' minor league system. Ryu made a very similar statement about wanting to make the team in any pitching capacity.

 

Guys who are trying to crack the roster for the first time will do it anyway they can. Guys who have been on major league rosters for a few years generally don't take the threat of demotion like it's no big deal. It's more than this statement though. I think the Cubs have questioned his desire and motivation since he came over. I think they were disappointed in how he came into spring and how he started pitching.

[Blueheart05]

I have a feeling that a lot of this relates to the Cubs believing Williams has motivation issues. Jerome talked about a possible move to the pen like it was no big deal. Some might consider that to be a sign of a lack of desire to be great.

 

I guess that's one way to look at it. When I read his quote I thought it had more to do with him wanting to be on a ML roster even if it means he loses his starting job. At this point, Williams isn't a lock to stay in the League. If the Cubs hadn't traded for him, he might still be "working things out" in the Giants' minor league system. Ryu made a very similar statement about wanting to make the team in any pitching capacity.

 

Guys who are trying to crack the roster for the first time will do it anyway they can. Guys who have been on major league rosters for a few years generally don't take the threat of demotion like it's no big deal. It's more than this statement though. I think the Cubs have questioned his desire and motivation since he came over. I think they were disappointed in how he came into spring and how he started pitching.

 

I think it's obvious that the Cubs have setup a number of competitions this Spring. They definitely want certain guys to show their worth but I can't say that they were disappointed in Williams coming into ST; he was being praised by all at the start of camp, and the Cubs Convention, because he reportedly lost weight. On the otherhand, I'm sure they are concerned with the way he has pitched.

 

Again, he may have some ML service time but he's not a lock. I think his statement comes from the same place Ryu's comes from; the desire to be on a ML staff. Williams spent a good portion of last season in the minors. I'm certain that's a bigger blow to his ego than going to the bullpen.

[goonys evil twin]

Again, he may have some ML service time but he's not a lock. I think his statement comes from the same place Ryu's comes from; the desire to be on a ML staff. Williams spent a good portion of last season in the minors. I'm certain that's a bigger blow to his ego than going to the bullpen.

 

It certainly does not come from the same place. There might be something about the desire to stick. But where Ryu is at and where Williams is at are completely different. Trying to crack a roster and trying to stick in the rotation after almost 400 innings in the majors are not the same place.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Williams usually performs poorly in ST. He actually lost weight this offseason on his Chicken diet, so I'm not sure how his motivation should be coming into question.

[Blueheart05]

Again, he may have some ML service time but he's not a lock. I think his statement comes from the same place Ryu's comes from; the desire to be on a ML staff. Williams spent a good portion of last season in the minors. I'm certain that's a bigger blow to his ego than going to the bullpen.

 

It certainly does not come from the same place. There might be something about the desire to stick. But where Ryu is at and where Williams is at are completely different. Trying to crack a roster and trying to stick in the rotation after almost 400 innings in the majors are not the same place.

 

I only see a slight difference. 383 ML innings doesn't guarantee a career (especially when he isn't pitching well). He amassed the majority of those innings in a system that isn't very rich in pitching. Jerome knows the competition is greater to stick on the Cubs staff.

[RyCubsFan]

I have a feeling that a lot of this relates to the Cubs believing Williams has motivation issues. Jerome talked about a possible move to the pen like it was no big deal. Some might consider that to be a sign of a lack of desire to be great.

 

 

Wow. Tough croud. What does that have to do with not being motivated???

 

I really like Jerome's quote. It showed me that he is unselfish and willing to do whatever it takes to help the team, whether that is starting or relieving.

 

There should be more players like that. Soriano should have more of Williams' attitude in him.

[goonys evil twin]

Williams usually performs poorly in ST. He actually lost weight this offseason on his Chicken diet, so I'm not sure how his motivation should be coming into question.

 

I just get the impression, from the way the Cubs talk about Williams they have issues with his motivation. I'm not judging the guy in that way. I don't pretend to be able to get inside a player's head. I'm just saying that based on how the Cubs treat certain players, it seems like they might question his motivation to be the best starter he can be. They never questioned Rusch's spot in the rotation, even though he's been just as bad. They have questioned Williams for quite some time now, and they keep openly challening him in the media to step up and take the job. They don't do that with others. They didn't tell Cedeno to step up and earn the job, I think they believe he's going all out. The Cubs held him down in the minors last year to lose weight, their first impression of him was a guy who wasn't 100% motivated. I think that sticks in their head and affects their evaluation of him.

[badger1679666666]

Williams usually performs poorly in ST. He actually lost weight this offseason on his Chicken diet, so I'm not sure how his motivation should be coming into question.

 

I just get the impression, from the way the Cubs talk about Williams they have issues with his motivation. I'm not judging the guy in that way. I don't pretend to be able to get inside a player's head. I'm just saying that based on how the Cubs treat certain players, it seems like they might question his motivation to be the best starter he can be. They never questioned Rusch's spot in the rotation, even though he's been just as bad. They have questioned Williams for quite some time now, and they keep openly challening him in the media to step up and take the job. They don't do that with others. They didn't tell Cedeno to step up and earn the job, I think they believe he's going all out. The Cubs held him down in the minors last year to lose weight, their first impression of him was a guy who wasn't 100% motivated. I think that sticks in their head and affects their evaluation of him.

 

Why do you think they are so enamored with [expletive] then? he's just as much of a fatty a Williams was lat year.

[goonys evil twin]

Why do you think they are so enamored with [expletive] then? he's just as much of a fatty a Williams was lat year.

 

Who?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Why do you think they are so enamored with [expletive] then? he's just as much of a fatty a Williams was lat year.

 

Who?

 

He's talking about Rusch. And I agree with goony. I think the Cubs have some questions about Williams.

 

As to their feelings about [expletive], I think that the way Rusch stepped into the rotation in 2004 and delivered some pretty big innings for us has left an indelible impression on Baker, Hendry, et al. I think that in itself helps Rusch in the eyes of management.

[badger1679666666]

Why do you think they are so enamored with [expletive] then? he's just as much of a fatty a Williams was lat year.

 

Who?

 

[expletive] = Rusch.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Williams usually performs poorly in ST. He actually lost weight this offseason on his Chicken diet, so I'm not sure how his motivation should be coming into question.

 

I just get the impression, from the way the Cubs talk about Williams they have issues with his motivation. I'm not judging the guy in that way. I don't pretend to be able to get inside a player's head. I'm just saying that based on how the Cubs treat certain players, it seems like they might question his motivation to be the best starter he can be. They never questioned Rusch's spot in the rotation, even though he's been just as bad. They have questioned Williams for quite some time now, and they keep openly challening him in the media to step up and take the job. They don't do that with others. They didn't tell Cedeno to step up and earn the job, I think they believe he's going all out. The Cubs held him down in the minors last year to lose weight, their first impression of him was a guy who wasn't 100% motivated. I think that sticks in their head and affects their evaluation of him.

 

I think Rusch gets the benefit of the doubt b/c he was picked off the scrap heap and gave us some good innings. Williams has higher expectations to live up to.

 

I think the motivation issue came from his weight problems in SF and a little after the trade to chicago and maybe even his personal life. It sounds like the personal life drama has died down and he's in better (but not great) shape to start the season. He's just struggling on the mound, which isn't unusual for him this early.

 

He'd better get it dialed up quick b/c Marshall, Hill, Guzman, and Ryu are hungry and talented.

[Blueheart05]

Williams usually performs poorly in ST. He actually lost weight this offseason on his Chicken diet, so I'm not sure how his motivation should be coming into question.

 

I just get the impression, from the way the Cubs talk about Williams they have issues with his motivation. I'm not judging the guy in that way. I don't pretend to be able to get inside a player's head. I'm just saying that based on how the Cubs treat certain players, it seems like they might question his motivation to be the best starter he can be. They never questioned Rusch's spot in the rotation, even though he's been just as bad. They have questioned Williams for quite some time now, and they keep openly challening him in the media to step up and take the job. They don't do that with others. They didn't tell Cedeno to step up and earn the job, I think they believe he's going all out. The Cubs held him down in the minors last year to lose weight, their first impression of him was a guy who wasn't 100% motivated. I think that sticks in their head and affects their evaluation of him.

 

I think it was more than his weight last year; it was also his concerns about his father (and in the previous seasons it was issues about his mother's health). I think the Cubs wanted him to refocus on baseball but that doesn't mean they thought he wasn't motivated (just distracted).

[goonys evil twin]

Why do you think they are so enamored with [expletive] then? he's just as much of a fatty a Williams was lat year.

 

Who?

 

[expletive] = Rusch.

 

The Cubs love Rusch, they've always loved Rusch. They've kept him in the rotation when he didn't deserve it. They feel they took a gamble on him and he paid off, so they owe him the benefit of the doubt. Williams hasn't done anything for them yet, so they don't care about dissing him. Plus, Glendon is a "proven veteran" while Williams is still a kid, and this team certainly puts more emphasis than is necessary on tenure.

 

They put Williams in the minors and made it clear they wanted him to lose weight. They never did anything like that with Rusch, which tells me they are comfortable with Rusch's self motivation, and feel the need to use the hammer more with Jerome.

[CubDad4Ever]

Come on gooney , i think Mt Ruschmore has thrown decently as a cub starter. Im not putting him in the hall but he is a southpaw who has been overall fairly productive as a cub starter. I think williams fairly , has to prove he will go get it in terms of consistancy and motivation. Thats what hurt him in SF. Coach L. Its time to stop the obligitory Cubs love Vets hate youth crud. Pagan, Marshall , Theriot, Murton , Cedeno, I dont care who is on the bump as long as they keep us in the game.