Marshall as #4 starter?

[CUBZ99]

From Rozner:

 

Don’t be shocked if the Cubs pull the trigger and replace Williams in the rotation with the 23-year-old Marshall before they leave Arizona. Marshall has earned it with a spectacular spring, while Williams has continued to get hit hard.

 

In fact, Angel Guzman deserves a chance to get a shot ahead of Rusch, but the Cubs don’t seem prepared to make that switch yet.

 

Makes complete sense. I wonder if he has the inside scoop?

 

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/rozner.asp?id=171648

[frostwyrm]

From Rozner:

 

Don’t be shocked if the Cubs pull the trigger and replace Williams in the rotation with the 23-year-old Marshall before they leave Arizona. Marshall has earned it with a spectacular spring, while Williams has continued to get hit hard.

 

In fact, Angel Guzman deserves a chance to get a shot ahead of Rusch, but the Cubs don’t seem prepared to make that switch yet.

 

Makes complete sense. I wonder if he has the inside scoop?

 

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/rozner.asp?id=171648

 

I haven't watched any games yet. How does Williams look physically? Did he lose any weight in the offseason?

[katway]

I certainly wouldn't mind seeing that happen. Marshall appears to have been very consistent with good stuff. While I have some concern with respect to his durability to pitch a full major league season at this point, he's earned the shot and has the advatage of being lefthanded.

 

Guzman, when healthy, is a major league pitcher IMO. So, if he is healthy, give him a spot in the rotation.

 

With respect to Williams, he has lost some weight, but is really getting tagged this spring. Simply doesn't look like he is pitching well enough to get a spot in the rotation.

 

Hill has that great curve, but still needs to season his other pitches. I don't like him in relief because he still walks to many and can give up the long ball. Would rather seem him start at AAA to work on his control and other pitches.

 

Rusch is probably the pitcher best suited for the long-relief and spot starting. Rather have him in that role than as a starter.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I thought Bruce flat out asked Dusty if that was a possibility (having youngsters 4 and 5) and Dusty said no.

 

i'll go and try to find that quote to make sure a) i'm not on crack and b) that i'm not slightly misquoting Bruce.

 

edit: here we go

 

Bruce - Who, if anybody, is currently the favorite to win the 5th starting spot in the rotation?

 

IMO, it's Marshall. I raised the question yesterday if one of those guys could move into the 4th spot. Dusty said no.

 

^^^ from the 3/26 Game thread (Cubs/D-backs)

Edited March 28, 2006 by Meat&PotatoesMan

[TheDude]

I thought about posting the suggestion that both Guzman and Marshall take rotation spots and bump out Rusch to start the season.

 

That was on Saturday. I didn't post it because I thought maybe I was just thinking with my heart after seeing those two pitch 8 combined no-hitter innings and just demontsrating general 'Wow'.

 

But at this point, I see no loss in Rusch's value/attitude. So why not roll the dice? Zambrano-Maddux-Williams-Marshall-Guzman to start the season.

 

I'd rather not demoralize Williams. He's still a young kid and needs to be shown confidence by Dusty. Rusch on the hand is veteran with an expected versatility.

[CUBZ99]

I thought Bruce flat out asked Dusty if that was a possibility (having youngsters 4 and 5) and Dusty said no.

 

i'll go and try to find that quote to make sure a) i'm not on crack and b) that i'm not slightly misquoting Bruce.

 

Rozner and Bruce are from the same paper though, so unless there is no communication between the two, Dusty may have had a change of heart.

[srbin84]

Leave Williams in there. Make Marshall or Guzman the #5. You might remember when we got Williams, he had a 9.39 ERA in six AAA starts. Then he just turned in on from the first day he was with the Cubs. He'll turn it on again when the season starts.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Leave Williams in there. Make Marshall or Guzman the #5. You might remember after we got Williams, he had a 9.39 ERA in six AAA starts. Then he just turned in on from the first day he was with the Cubs. He'll turn it on again when the season starts.

 

He usually just starts slow. Unfortunately, we need to at least tred water until Wood/Prior/Miller arrive.

[goonys evil twin]

I thought about posting the suggestion that both Guzman and Marshall take rotation spots and bump out Rusch to start the season.

 

That was on Saturday. I didn't post it because I thought maybe I was just thinking with my heart after seeing those two pitch 8 combined no-hitter innings and just demontsrating general 'Wow'.

 

But at this point, I see no loss in Rusch's value/attitude. So why not roll the dice? Zambrano-Maddux-Williams-Marshall-Guzman to start the season.

 

I'd rather not demoralize Williams. He's still a young kid and needs to be shown confidence by Dusty. Rusch on the hand is veteran with an expected versatility.

 

I'd go this way as well. You can't knock out Williams because of bad spring results. They don't mean anything. Williams, even when he's on, gives up his fair share of long fly ball outs. Those go out of Hohokam in March, but not necessarily Wrigley in April. You have to base it off of a longer track record than just spring training. Rusch's career tells you it's best if you find somebody to take his place. Williams can still be a viable option.

[srbin84]

Leave Williams in there. Make Marshall or Guzman the #5. You might remember after we got Williams, he had a 9.39 ERA in six AAA starts. Then he just turned in on from the first day he was with the Cubs. He'll turn it on again when the season starts.

 

He usually just starts slow. Unfortunately, we need to at least tred water until Wood/Prior/Miller arrive.

 

Well, I like Guzman and Marshall but they both walk too many guys. I don't know if I like the idea of both of them in the rotation at the same time.

[goonys evil twin]

I thought Bruce flat out asked Dusty if that was a possibility (having youngsters 4 and 5) and Dusty said no.

 

i'll go and try to find that quote to make sure a) i'm not on crack and b) that i'm not slightly misquoting Bruce.

 

Rozner and Bruce are from the same paper though, so unless there is no communication between the two, Dusty may have had a change of heart.

 

Rozner is a columnist writing opinion pieces. I don't know one way or the other, but I'd be surprised if there was a change of heart and Rozner suddenly has some inside scoop about the great rookie infusion of 2006.

[goonys evil twin]

Leave Williams in there. Make Marshall or Guzman the #5. You might remember after we got Williams, he had a 9.39 ERA in six AAA starts. Then he just turned in on from the first day he was with the Cubs. He'll turn it on again when the season starts.

 

He usually just starts slow. Unfortunately, we need to at least tred water until Wood/Prior/Miller arrive.

 

Well, I like Guzman and Marshall but they both walk too many guys. I don't know if I like the idea of both of them in the rotation at the same time.

 

If that's your criteria, then you'd probably want both Guzman and Marshall over Williams. Jerome has walked 3.34 per 9 innings in the majors. Marshall is at 2.50 as a pro, while Guzman is at 2.22.

[srbin84]

I was basing that off the spring stats. They have something like 13 combined walks.

[CUBZ99]

I thought Bruce flat out asked Dusty if that was a possibility (having youngsters 4 and 5) and Dusty said no.

 

i'll go and try to find that quote to make sure a) i'm not on crack and b) that i'm not slightly misquoting Bruce.

 

Rozner and Bruce are from the same paper though, so unless there is no communication between the two, Dusty may have had a change of heart.

 

Rozner is a columnist writing opinion pieces. I don't know one way or the other, but I'd be surprised if there was a change of heart and Rozner suddenly has some inside scoop about the great rookie infusion of 2006.

 

You are probably right, but the Cubs seem to be doing strange things this year like giving Murton and Cedeno a chance, and bringing in a majority of minor leaguers for spring training.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Leave Williams in there. Make Marshall or Guzman the #5. You might remember after we got Williams, he had a 9.39 ERA in six AAA starts. Then he just turned in on from the first day he was with the Cubs. He'll turn it on again when the season starts.

 

He usually just starts slow. Unfortunately, we need to at least tred water until Wood/Prior/Miller arrive.

 

Well, I like Guzman and Marshall but they both walk too many guys. I don't know if I like the idea of both of them in the rotation at the same time.

 

Actually, Guzman walks very few batters, historically speaking.

[srbin84]

Leave Williams in there. Make Marshall or Guzman the #5. You might remember after we got Williams, he had a 9.39 ERA in six AAA starts. Then he just turned in on from the first day he was with the Cubs. He'll turn it on again when the season starts.

 

He usually just starts slow. Unfortunately, we need to at least tred water until Wood/Prior/Miller arrive.

 

Well, I like Guzman and Marshall but they both walk too many guys. I don't know if I like the idea of both of them in the rotation at the same time.

 

Actually, Guzman walks very few batters, historically speaking.

 

Well, K/BB ratio has concerned me this spring .57 K/BB.

[goonys evil twin]

Well, K/BB ratio has concerned me this spring .57 K/BB.

 

You really have to get over your hangup with spring stats. They are meaningless. They mean nothing. They don't tell you a thing about a pitcher or hitter.

[srbin84]

Well, K/BB ratio has concerned me this spring .57 K/BB.

 

You really have to get over your hangup with spring stats. They are meaningless. They mean nothing. They don't tell you a thing about a pitcher or hitter.

 

I beg to differ when you are talking about guys getting the last pitcher spot on the roster or the last bench spot. Historically, the guys who did better in spring training were better in the majors at that particular point in time.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Leave Williams in there. Make Marshall or Guzman the #5. You might remember after we got Williams, he had a 9.39 ERA in six AAA starts. Then he just turned in on from the first day he was with the Cubs. He'll turn it on again when the season starts.

 

He usually just starts slow. Unfortunately, we need to at least tred water until Wood/Prior/Miller arrive.

 

Well, I like Guzman and Marshall but they both walk too many guys. I don't know if I like the idea of both of them in the rotation at the same time.

 

Actually, Guzman walks very few batters, historically speaking.

 

Well, K/BB ratio has concerned me this spring .57 K/BB.

 

Sample size, my man. Sample size.

[Danny82]

I was basing that off the spring stats. They have something like 13 combined walks.

 

You'd probably be better served looking to their career minor league statistics than basing your opinion on a limited number of innings this spring.

 

Guzman has his 2.22 bb/9 over approximately 421 minor league innings.

 

Marshall has his 2.5 bb/9 over approximately 252 minor league innings.

[goonys evil twin]

Well, K/BB ratio has concerned me this spring .57 K/BB.

 

You really have to get over your hangup with spring stats. They are meaningless. They mean nothing. They don't tell you a thing about a pitcher or hitter.

 

I beg to differ when you are talking about guys getting the last pitcher spot on the roster or the last bench spot. Historically, the guys who did better in spring training were better in the majors at that particular point in time.

 

Where are you coming up with this? Historically, some incredibly mediocre players have had amazing spring training results, and some very solid contributors have stunk up the joint. Spring training results are meaningless. Not only is the sample size way to small to pass judgement, the level of competition varies widely, the conditions are far from ideal, bodies are not in regular season game shape, the intensity is just not there, and the outcomes don't matter. Spring training stats are meaningless.

[srbin84]

Then why does anyone want to take Williams, an established quality pitcher, out of the rotation for these two guys.

[goonys evil twin]

Then why does anyone want to take Williams, an established quality pitcher, out of the rotation for these too guys.

 

I don't want to take him out of the rotation. But I'm not sure I'd qualify him as an established quality pitcher. He's got some quality innings under his belt, but he's had mixed results. Based strictly on upside, both Marshall and Guzman surpass Williams, who, if all goes right, will be a decent middle of the rotation guy. He's not lights out, never has been and never will. I'd give him the spot to start the season, and bump Rusch out. Give Marshall the 4th spot (or whatever you want to call it), and then have Hill or Guzman take the 5th spot when it's needed in mid-April. Whenever Wood, Miller and/or Prior show that they are ready (with solid minor league outings), then these guys can be sent back to the minors.

[SouthSideRyan]

Why is this organization obsessed with getting Williams out of the rotation?

[frostwyrm]

It's kinda sickening to think of how high Williams' and Hill's trade values were not too long ago. Now they're looking like the tech stock you should have sold in 1999.