Why is there a battle at 2nd?

[TB_11]

It's got nothing to do with minor league players, it has everything to do with the misguided love for players that are basically inadequate as complete players. Are you suggesting this board didn't go a little overboard in "evaluating" the above list?

 

This is about as transparent an attempt to hijack a thread as I can recall seeing here. If you want to contribute something relevant to the discussion try to convince us that Neifi Perez or Jerry Hairston should start over Walker.

 

I'll take both sides of this thread. I do think that Walker gets a little more credit than he deserves on this board. He's not a great hitter, even for a second baseman, but he's a good hitter. And even with his troubles defensively, I believe he is without a doubt our best option at 2B. Evidence (his and Hairston's offensive rankings among all second basemen with at least 300 PAs, Neifi's excluded because he shouldn't even be considered):

 

            Walker                  Hairston
         2004    2005             2004    2005
OBP       12th    11th              3rd    17th
SLG        8th     7th             24th    27th
RC/27      5th     7th             11th    28th

 

Look back over previous years and you find the same thing holds pretty consistently for Walker: He's generally about in the top third of second basemen offensively. He's shown a consistent level of performance that Choi, Harris, or Dubois (who's bandwagon I was on) haven't.

 

Given his significant advantage offensively over Hairston, and his huge offensive advantage of Neifi, he should definitely be the starting second basemen, regardless of what he says to the media.

[goonys evil twin]

I do think that Walker gets a little more credit than he deserves on this board.

 

I don't think he gets more credit than he deserves. It just appears that way because there is a threat the Cubs will start Neifi Perez in his place and/or give away Walker at the same time. If the Cubs could find a better 2B than Walker, I'd be fine with dealing him. I've got no emotional attachment to him. The problem is the more we hear about "catching the ball", coupled with the complete disregard for the single most glaring weakness on this team (guys who get on base), the more many of us think this team is doing nothing to correct the same mistakes they've made over and over. And that creates a constant churning of this story, which makes it look like people are passionate Walker supporters, when in reality they just fear the alternative.

[Blueheart05]

There is competition because the Cubs have three guys at 2B that they never hoped to start this season. Let's not forget that the Cubs wanted to acquire another SS and were willing to move Cedeno to 2B. In a perfect world, the Cubs would have gotten Furcal (or Tejada), Walker would have been traded by now, and Perez and Hairston Jr. would be bench players while Ronny starts.

 

''We made it perfectly clear to everyone, whether it was Furcal or if we had been able to acquire a guy like Tejada, Ronny Cedeno was going to second -- and there wouldn't have been any competition right now,'' Hendry said. ''And Todd knew that also. It wasn't a national secret that Furcal and Tejada were being pursued.''

 

Link

 

Hendry on Walker and competition

 

"My only chat with him in the winter was real clear that he would go to camp with a chance to earn a lot of playing time, but in no way will the job be handed to him or anybody else. And he got that loud and clear from me and didn't have a problem with that as long as he felt he had a chance.

 

''I can't see Dusty Baker writing the lineup card thinking, 'Well, let me try to play my guy, who I think is the second-best guy.' It's going no different than what we, as an organization, felt it should go. It's March 13. You've got a lot of time still.''

[BigbadB]

There is competition because the Cubs have three guys at 2B that they never hoped to start this season. Let's not forget that the Cubs wanted to acquire another SS and were willing to move Cedeno to 2B. In a perfect world, the Cubs would have gotten Furcal (or Tejada), Walker would have been traded by now, and Perez and Hairston Jr. would be bench players while Ronny starts.

 

''We made it perfectly clear to everyone, whether it was Furcal or if we had been able to acquire a guy like Tejada, Ronny Cedeno was going to second -- and there wouldn't have been any competition right now,'' Hendry said. ''And Todd knew that also. It wasn't a national secret that Furcal and Tejada were being pursued.''

 

Link

 

Hendry on Walker and competition

 

"My only chat with him in the winter was real clear that he would go to camp with a chance to earn a lot of playing time, but in no way will the job be handed to him or anybody else. And he got that loud and clear from me and didn't have a problem with that as long as he felt he had a chance.

 

''I can't see Dusty Baker writing the lineup card thinking, 'Well, let me try to play my guy, who I think is the second-best guy.' It's going no different than what we, as an organization, felt it should go. It's March 13. You've got a lot of time still.''

 

Which takes me back to my original comment. Walker just needs to shut up and let his bat do the talking.

[goonys evil twin]

I find it odd that Hendry is willing to so openly tell all three "competitors" he wished none of them would have had the job. That seems to go against the way they've talked about operating.

[craig]

...The problem is the more we hear about "catching the ball", coupled with the complete disregard for the single most glaring weakness on this team (guys who get on base), the more many of us think this team is doing nothing to correct the same mistakes they've made over and over. And that creates a constant churning of this story, which makes it look like people are passionate Walker supporters, when in reality they just fear the alternative.

 

I think this point applies to Walker versus Neifi. I'm not sure that I see it applying to Walker versus Hairston. Hairston does project to "catch the ball" better than Walker. But if the glaring weakness is guys who get on base, Hairston projects very comparably to Walker. Perhaps a bit better. The OBP issue really stems from the low walks (the batting average has been fine). Hairston walks as much or more than Walker and I think projects to get on base as or more often. Over past three years, Hairston's OBP is about .356, Walker's about .342. So it's not as if starting Hairston fairly often would be compromising the OBP. What it would be compromising is the slugging, where Walker is much stronger.

 

The likely superiority in OPS that Walker will have is based on his greater power. Whatever glaring weaknesses the Cubs may have had, power was clearly not one of them. On the other hand, I'm not sure that defense was really a glaring weakness either, at a team level. It was respectable. And while power may not have been last year, this year could be a different story, with Pierre and Murton and Jones not being a real powerful outfield.

 

I don't think Neifi is really a factor in this.

 

I think in choosing between Hairston and walker, OBP is kind of a wash, or if anything slightly on the Hairston side. I think it's balancing Walker's power edge (which is huge) versus Hairston's defense/baserunning edge (the magnitude and value of which is obviously central to the decision.)

 

If the view is that Walker's power (which is beyond debate) is more important than Hairston's defense (which is debatable; is Walker's D really that bad? Is Hairston's D really that good? etc.. If Hairston's is better, is really enough better to be worth sacrificing 40 points in slugging? 60 points in slugging? 80 points in slugging? 100 points in slugging? etc..)

 

Both players are missing something from being fully rounded complete perfect players. Walker is short on defense and speed. Hairston is short on power. Goony, you have clearly balanced those factors and concluded that the power definitively outweighs the defense/speed factor. Some of us are not really convinced. Dusty and Hendry seem to be sorting through the same issues. They don't seem to see the power as so definitively outweighing the defense as you do, and maybe they're idiots not to. To some degree they seem to be giving a lot of weight to the defense ("catch the ball"). We'll see.

 

I do think some posters undervalue defense, which is harder to quantify. Perhaps some overvalue defense, and imagine it makes more difference than it actually does. Beats me.

 

oldfan made a comment suggesting that Walker is perhaps an example of a player who is not complete enough; excellent offensive player, but the defensive/baserunning are limits. Perhaps Hendry sees Hairston as a more rounded player, who can run well, field well, and perhaps also contribute well offensively (as an OBP guy). But Hairston is also less than "complete" in that he has no power. They may feel that for a #2 hitter, getting on base and running well is complete enough offensively, and that they don't really need the power at #2.

 

One other "glaring weakness" comment. Sometimes it's maybe wise to focus on fixing a glaring weakness. From that view, if OBP was the GW, so long as Neifi doesn't start we'll be OK.

 

But sometimes I think it's important to build on strength, and to amplify a glaring strength that sets you apart and above the pack. Having Walker and his power might help to set the Cubs apart as a premium power team. If Cedeno produces decently at SS, and Walker goes .820 at 2B, they could have an exception C/infield offensively and in terms of power. That could really be the bright spot on the team. Could be a great thing. And if murton and Jones pitch in, this could be a very strong slugging team.

 

Alternatively, the defense could be perhaps the most outstanding part of the team. Lee-Hairston-Cedeno-Aram might be the best defensive infield in baseball, and defense might become a trademark for the team. Murton-Pierre-Jones might be the fastest outfield in baseball. Defensive range might really become a 2006 Cub trademark.

 

If defensive range was the Cubs trademark, I can also imagine that being a little bit nice for the pitchers. Yes, they've got K-guys. But when you've got Alou, Sosa, Nomar, Aram, and Walker behind you, you'll probably want to K guys as often as you can. Some very non-rangy defenders in the last two years. I could imagine (I'm in dreamland, I admit) Prior and Wood and Z throwing some not-so-perfect strikes, hitters rip them pretty hard, and voila! Cedeno goes in the hole and makes the play, Hairston zips way to his left and makes the play, Murton and Jones run hard and turn hard drives into outs, just as out as if Prior had taken 9 pitches to nibble around and K the guy. Suddenly it maybe gets into Prior's and Wood's heads, "hey, I don't need to be that perfect, I can go after the hitters, let them hit the ball more often, but my defense usually catches them anyway, why not?" and suddenly they are rolling up 14-pitch innings instead of 18-pitch innings, and making it into the 7th and 8th innings with little pitch count problem?

[goonys evil twin]

Pretending it's just Walker vs Hairston makes no sense. And pretending Hairston is some sort of lock to provide better OBP than Walker makes less sense. Hairston is in the Wood category when it comes to health. He won't play the full season. And he might not be any good when he does play. If Walker is dumped, and Hairston gets the job, Neifi will play a lot, and the Cubs second base production will be less than it was last year.

[E.J.]

Looks like the guys over at Orioles' Hangout think a Walker for Matos trade might happen soon...

[Blueheart05]

I find it odd that Hendry is willing to so openly tell all three "competitors" he wished none of them would have had the job. That seems to go against the way they've talked about operating.

 

Really? I think it makes perfect sense. I think Hendry is saying that there was no secret that the team wanted to go in a different direction (in the middle infield). I don't think we can argue this considering what we know now. At the time, some people, including me, weren't sure if acquiring another SS meant that Cedeno was going to be traded or benched. Plus, many people speculated that Perez would be the 2B starter when rumors of Walker trades became public. Now we know definitively that Hendry intended to start Ronny at 2B.

 

The club's inability to acquire another SS means that Cedeno is now the starter and they have an unforseen competition at a position they had hoped would be set. There's no doubt in my mind that the cubs wanted/want to trade Walker. They didn't really want any of these guys (Perez, Walker, or Hairston Jr) to start but now they have an opportunity to change minds.

[BigbadB]

I can still see the disgusted look on Wood's face when he left a 3rd straight game with a loss in games that should have been wins, but became losses because he got zero run support.

 

I'm sure it goes both ways. Maybe the pitching staff is tired of losing games because of defense. However, I think you will see them tire of losing games because of poor run support if they are trotting Neifi Perez out there day in and day out.

 

I like Hairston about as much as I like Walker. Between Neifi, Hairston and Walker, I think you have one all star 2nd baseman. Unfortunately, they can't all be at 2nd base at the same time using each of their skills independently.

 

I'm fine with a platoon of Hairston and Walker. I'm fine with a late inning Neifi Perez sighting as a defensive replacement in a close game.

 

I'm probably even fine with a very rare Perez start at 2nd when Zambrano is on the hill against a pesky infield single hitting team. But, Perez would need to hit at the bottom of the order and he would need to be replaced by Hairston or Walker when a bat was needed to get the offense going late in the game.

[goonys evil twin]

I find it odd that Hendry is willing to so openly tell all three "competitors" he wished none of them would have had the job. That seems to go against the way they've talked about operating.

 

Really? I think it makes perfect sense.

 

Perfect sense? I'd be interested in hearing your definition of the word perfect. They have 3 candidates for a job and have told all three they wish they weren't candidates for the job. They've let the guy who should be the lead candidate know they don't even want him on the team. The only candidate they have consistently supported in the past is the guy least qualified for the job.

 

Nothing this team has done has made perfect sense.

[BigbadB]

Looks like the guys over at Orioles' Hangout think a Walker for Matos trade might happen soon...

 

Horrible trade. Why on Earth would the Cubs need Matos? If that trade happens, this teams bench will not be any sort of a threat to any opposing teams relievers. Hairston and Jones can occupy CF if for some weird reason Pierre doesn't play in 156 or more games.

 

I think I'd actually rather go with Grissom than Matos, and that's not saying much.

[Blueheart05]

I find it odd that Hendry is willing to so openly tell all three "competitors" he wished none of them would have had the job. That seems to go against the way they've talked about operating.

 

Really? I think it makes perfect sense.

 

Perfect sense? I'd be interested in hearing your definition of the word perfect. They have 3 candidates for a job and have told all three they wish they weren't candidates for the job. They've let the guy who should be the lead candidate know they don't even want him on the team. The only candidate they have consistently supported in the past is the guy least qualified for the job.

 

Nothing this team has done has made perfect sense.

 

Well, if you read my post in its entirety it does make sense. The situation at 2B isn't what the club wanted, we all know that because they tried long and hard to get other players. Walker, Perez, and Hairston know this too. The "competition" has only been made possible by the Cubs inability to get another SS. I'm not trying to argue but it is true that the Cubs didn't want any of these guys starting. If anything, the candidates should be happy that there is a starting job for them to strive for (they watched the reports all winter and no doubt were worried about their own standing with the Club. Even Perez, with his 2 year deal, had/has to be questioning where he fits in).

Edited March 14, 2006 by Blueheart05

[craig]

Pretending it's just Walker vs Hairston makes no sense. And pretending Hairston is some sort of lock to provide better OBP than Walker makes less sense. Hairston is in the Wood category when it comes to health. He won't play the full season. And he might not be any good when he does play. If Walker is dumped, and Hairston gets the job, Neifi will play a lot, and the Cubs second base production will be less than it was last year.

 

Do you think that Neifi is in the mix to be the regular 2B? I haven't seen any indication of that, I think that's just paranoia.

 

Hairston is absolutely not "a lock" to provide better OBP than Walker. But he's more likely. They are similar enough that either could come out higher, and given even odds, I'd put my bet on Hairston rather than Walker. Point being, you don't choose Walker over Hairston because of OBP. You choose either one over Neifi based on OBP, but between Walker/Hairston OBP is almost a non-factor. The real factors are Walker's power versus Hairston's defense/speed; OBP isn't a factor.

 

I fully agree that if they opt to make Hairston a lead regular, it's a big question what they do for insurance. He's an injury risk. He's a performance risk (if he's hitting .255, trouble...). I definitely won't feel safe if the best alternative for Hairston is Neifi, so I'd like to keep Walker.

 

Walker talks sweet that if he doesn't start, he'll root for whoever does. But I think if they do decide Hairston is the preferred regular, they'll have to decide whether Walker fits in a support role. Can he hold his hitting stroke if he's not getting 20 AB/week? Can he keep his mouth out of trouble, or will he be whining and stirring up continuous trouble? Can you afford to put him on the field to play any position other than 2B?

 

Perhaps this is where some of these Graffanino type rumors come in. If you a) decide Hairston is better option, b) want more than Neifi as insurance, but c) don't think Walker will work if he isn't starting all the time, then maybe you go after Graffanino as more Hairston insurance. (And insurance at 3B, where neither Neifi nor Mabry may be quite what I'd want if Aram goes down...). Maybe you figure Graff is a better fit for the Cub bench than Walker; but at the same time that you can get Graff for less than you can get for Walker, so that you figure going from Walker to Graff is a plus, but you end up feeling like you are actually making a profit in the course of the two trades?

[goonys evil twin]

Pretending it's just Walker vs Hairston makes no sense. And pretending Hairston is some sort of lock to provide better OBP than Walker makes less sense. Hairston is in the Wood category when it comes to health. He won't play the full season. And he might not be any good when he does play. If Walker is dumped, and Hairston gets the job, Neifi will play a lot, and the Cubs second base production will be less than it was last year.

 

Do you think that Neifi is in the mix to be the regular 2B? I haven't seen any indication of that, I think that's just paranoia.

 

Neifi is in the mix because Hendry and Dusty have both said he is, and because if Walker is dealt, the only thing between him and the everyday job is an incredibly brittle Hairston, who has never been a quality full-time starter. That means that if Walker is dealt, and Hairston becomes the starter, we are virtually guaranteed lots of Neifi.

 

That's not paranoia, that's paying attention.

 

Hairston is absolutely not "a lock" to provide better OBP than Walker. But he's more likely.

 

No he isn't. Walker has the higher career OBP, and he's been much more consistent over the course of his career. Hairston has never, ever, in his career put up a decent OBP over the course of a season. Walker has done it several times. On top of that, he adds some power that the Cubs won't be getting for their OF. It's not at all a case of Hairston = OBP, Walker = SLG. Walker is the better hitter, he's always been the bettter hitter. He's more productive and he'll probably be more productive again this year. And if you go with Walker, Hairston is a reasonable fallback option. If you go with Hairston, Neifi is not.

[BigbadB]

Unfortunately, this organization hasn't given me any reason to believe they value OBP in the 2 hole, so I don't think the word "paranoia" is appropriate. See how many at bats Neifi got at the top of the order last year and then defend that number of at bats.

[frostwyrm]

I find it odd that Hendry is willing to so openly tell all three "competitors" he wished none of them would have had the job. That seems to go against the way they've talked about operating.

 

Really? I think it makes perfect sense.

 

Perfect sense? I'd be interested in hearing your definition of the word perfect. They have 3 candidates for a job and have told all three they wish they weren't candidates for the job. They've let the guy who should be the lead candidate know they don't even want him on the team. The only candidate they have consistently supported in the past is the guy least qualified for the job.

 

Nothing this team has done has made perfect sense.

 

Regardless of what Hendry may have said, if I were Neifi I'd feel pretty damn good about my chances of taking Cedeno's job, and I'm sure that's why he re-signed with the Cubs. You could tell from Neifi's latest quotes that he believes there is a good chance Cedeno won't last as the starting SS, and that he actually wants Cedeno to fail. Hairston would then get 2B in a Walker-less scenario, and Hairston knows that. Walker wasn't even supposed to be here at this point, so re-signing made a lot of sense for both Neifi and Hairston.

[craig]

It's not at all a case of Hairston = OBP, Walker = SLG. Walker is the better hitter, he's always been the bettter hitter.

 

As I've stated. But neither is it a case that Walker = OBP, which was one of your earlier points. (When you stated that OBP was the glaring weakness on the team. I noted that since Hairston and Walker were comparable in terms of OBP, you shouldn't choose Walker based on OBP.) If you wanted to make a bet, I would bet an "I told you so" that Hairston will have a higher OBP this season, even though I realize I'd have about a 50% chance of losing.

 

Walker is the better hitter... for power, and also for average. Hairston is a better IsoD guy. I expect that if Hairston can come within 20-25 points of Walker for average, he'll match him for OBP. If he comes within 10 points or less, he'll beat him for OBP.

 

Last year was the first in 7 years that Walker has hit .300, so I don't really expect him to repeat that. And I expect Hairston's average to rise a bit, with better wheels and more familiarity with NL pitchers. So I kinda figure that since they were only 19 points apart in OBP, that Walker will probably drop ten or more BA points, Hairston will likely gain ten or more BA points. That would put their OBP's equal. If Hairston rises a little higher, and/or Walker drops a bit more, I could easily see Hairston's OBP end a shade higher.

 

Am I suggesting that Hairston should start based on OBP? Absolutely not. Well, relative to Neifi yes! But not relative to Walker.

 

OBP = comparable. BA = Walker edge. Power = Walker huge edge. Defense/speed = Hairston edge.

 

It's *NOT* about OBP, except when Neifi enters the equation. It's about power versus defense/speed.

 

Again, I strongly agree with you that dumping Walker and going with Hairston/Neifi is *very* risky, because Hairston is health/performance risky. I agree that it's preferable to keep both Hairston and Walker.

 

If the premise is that Walker is such a duck that you can't afford to carry him on the bench, he'll pout or rust too much, whereas Hairston could handle it, I appreciate the logic that Walker starting with Hairston in reserve makes good logic.

 

I'm not sure I accept the notion that you couldn't start Hairston and use walker as an insurance policy. I think Walker could deal with it. But I admit I may be giving him too much credit, and it may be beyond his personality to accept a support role and to thrive in it.

[Blueheart05]

I find it odd that Hendry is willing to so openly tell all three "competitors" he wished none of them would have had the job. That seems to go against the way they've talked about operating.

 

Really? I think it makes perfect sense.

 

Perfect sense? I'd be interested in hearing your definition of the word perfect. They have 3 candidates for a job and have told all three they wish they weren't candidates for the job. They've let the guy who should be the lead candidate know they don't even want him on the team. The only candidate they have consistently supported in the past is the guy least qualified for the job.

 

Nothing this team has done has made perfect sense.

 

Regardless of what Hendry may have said, if I were Neifi I'd feel pretty damn good about my chances of taking Cedeno's job, and I'm sure that's why he re-signed with the Cubs. You could tell from Neifi's latest quotes that he believes there is a good chance Cedeno won't last as the starting SS, and that he actually wants Cedeno to fail. Hairston would then get 2B in a Walker-less scenario, and Hairston knows that. Walker wasn't even supposed to be here at this point, so re-signing made a lot of sense for both Neifi and Hairston.

 

Neifi resigned because the money and security were good (especially for a guy who's been a backup more often than not). His comments are suspect; he too should keep his mouth closed because it sounded suspiciously like he was hoping for Cedeno to fail (while playing up his "veteran" status).

 

Cedeno's starting spot should be fine as long as his defense is consistent. I think it will take an absolute collapse, defensively, by Ronny for him to lose his starting job. Baker has already said he plans to bat Cedeno 7th or 8th so he shouldn't have too much pressure to contribute offensively. I think he will be fine once he relaxes and stops pressing.

[goonys evil twin]

But neither is it a case that Walker = OBP, which was one of your earlier points.

 

No it wasn't one of my earlier points. I never said Walker = OBP.

 

I said that the reason it seems like some people love Walker so much is because of the fear of the alternative. And that alternative is some sort of combination of Hairston and Neifi, which is certain to get on base less frequently than Walker, or a combination of Walker and Hairston.

 

Management stresses catching the ball, but they don't say a thing about the big problem, a lack of guys who take walks and give you good at bats. Walker is no superstar, or great patient hitter. But he gives you good at bats and gets on base at a decent clip. Hairston is a suitable fallback option. But Hairston is not a suitable candidate for a starting job because he's been around for a while and has never shown any ability to stay healthy and produce like a starter over the course of a season.

[craig]

But neither is it a case that Walker = OBP, which was one of your earlier points.

 

No it wasn't one of my earlier points. I never said Walker = OBP.

 

I said that the reason it seems like some people love Walker so much is because of the fear of the alternative. And that alternative is some sort of combination of Hairston and Neifi, which is certain to get on base less frequently than Walker, or a combination of Walker and Hairston.

 

Management stresses catching the ball, but they don't say a thing about the big problem, a lack of guys who take walks and give you good at bats. Walker is no superstar, or great patient hitter. But he gives you good at bats and gets on base at a decent clip. Hairston is a suitable fallback option. But Hairston is not a suitable candidate for a starting job because he's been around for a while and has never shown any ability to stay healthy and produce like a starter over the course of a season.

 

Fair enough. Consider three different scenarios for 1-2-3 at 2B:

*Walker-Hairston-Neifi

*Hairston-Walker-Neifi

*Hairston-Graffanino-Neifi

 

I view those as being relatively interchangeable as regards OBP.

 

I agree with you that a 4th scenario is not:

*Hairston-Neifi-Theriot.

 

That one would be worse for OBP.

 

Considering those four:

*OBP: 1 = 2 = 3 > 4

*Slugging: 1 > 2 > 3 > 4

*Defense: 4 > 3 = 2 > 1

 

Configuration 4 is worst for both OBP and slugging. Configuration 1 is best for slugging. I'd prefer 1 or 2. 3 might work OK. I suspect we're basically in agreement that configuration 4 is the one we don't want.

[frostwyrm]

I find it odd that Hendry is willing to so openly tell all three "competitors" he wished none of them would have had the job. That seems to go against the way they've talked about operating.

 

Really? I think it makes perfect sense.

 

Perfect sense? I'd be interested in hearing your definition of the word perfect. They have 3 candidates for a job and have told all three they wish they weren't candidates for the job. They've let the guy who should be the lead candidate know they don't even want him on the team. The only candidate they have consistently supported in the past is the guy least qualified for the job.

 

Nothing this team has done has made perfect sense.

 

Regardless of what Hendry may have said, if I were Neifi I'd feel pretty damn good about my chances of taking Cedeno's job, and I'm sure that's why he re-signed with the Cubs. You could tell from Neifi's latest quotes that he believes there is a good chance Cedeno won't last as the starting SS, and that he actually wants Cedeno to fail. Hairston would then get 2B in a Walker-less scenario, and Hairston knows that. Walker wasn't even supposed to be here at this point, so re-signing made a lot of sense for both Neifi and Hairston.

 

Neifi resigned because the money and security were good (especially for a guy who's been a backup more often than not). His comments are suspect; he too should keep his mouth closed because it sounded suspiciously like he was hoping for Cedeno to fail (while playing up his "veteran" status).

 

Cedeno's starting spot should be fine as long as his defense is consistent. I think it will take an absolute collapse, defensively, by Ronny for him to lose his starting job. Baker has already said he plans to bat Cedeno 7th or 8th so he shouldn't have too much pressure to contribute offensively. I think he will be fine once he relaxes and stops pressing.

 

I agree with Neifi, I don't think Cedeno's job is safe at all. Neifi wasn't going to be offered a starting job by any team, but backing up a right-handed-batting rookie for a Dusty Baker team is the next best thing.

[Blueheart05]

I find it odd that Hendry is willing to so openly tell all three "competitors" he wished none of them would have had the job. That seems to go against the way they've talked about operating.

 

Really? I think it makes perfect sense.

 

Perfect sense? I'd be interested in hearing your definition of the word perfect. They have 3 candidates for a job and have told all three they wish they weren't candidates for the job. They've let the guy who should be the lead candidate know they don't even want him on the team. The only candidate they have consistently supported in the past is the guy least qualified for the job.

 

Nothing this team has done has made perfect sense.

 

Regardless of what Hendry may have said, if I were Neifi I'd feel pretty damn good about my chances of taking Cedeno's job, and I'm sure that's why he re-signed with the Cubs. You could tell from Neifi's latest quotes that he believes there is a good chance Cedeno won't last as the starting SS, and that he actually wants Cedeno to fail. Hairston would then get 2B in a Walker-less scenario, and Hairston knows that. Walker wasn't even supposed to be here at this point, so re-signing made a lot of sense for both Neifi and Hairston.

 

Neifi resigned because the money and security were good (especially for a guy who's been a backup more often than not). His comments are suspect; he too should keep his mouth closed because it sounded suspiciously like he was hoping for Cedeno to fail (while playing up his "veteran" status).

 

Cedeno's starting spot should be fine as long as his defense is consistent. I think it will take an absolute collapse, defensively, by Ronny for him to lose his starting job. Baker has already said he plans to bat Cedeno 7th or 8th so he shouldn't have too much pressure to contribute offensively. I think he will be fine once he relaxes and stops pressing.

 

I agree with Neifi, I don't think Cedeno's job is safe at all. Neifi wasn't going to be offered a starting job by any team, but backing up a right-handed-batting rookie for a Dusty Baker team is the next best thing.

 

We'll see. Only time will tell but Neifi's true asset is his glove. If Cedeno holds his own defensively he will be fine.

[craig]

We'll see. Only time will tell but Neifi's true asset is his glove. If Cedeno holds his own defensively he will be fine.

 

We'll see. But Cedeno has always been error-prone. He may hold his own defensively, but I'll be pretty surprised if he doesn't make his share of errors. Almost certainly more than Neifi would make.

 

If he's not offering anything over Neifi with his bat, all he'll have over Neifi is youth/potential. If it comes down simply to which is the better defensive player, I honestly think Neifi will be better.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not lobbying for Neifi to start. All I'm saying is that if Cedeno wants to *deserve* to play, I think he's going to need to hit. If he's drifting along with only a .605 OPS, I expect he'll error his way to the bench.

[dalgreen]

I am no longer interested in the 2nd base soap-opera. I don't want Perez starting anywhere; and as I said this time last season, Hairston isn't all that impressive. Anybody who can't statistically dominate Perez offensively shouldn't even be considered a starting second baseman on this team. As for Walker, I no longer wish to have a starter who seems to speak out of both sides of his mouth.