WBC Set-up

[stitchface]

Does anyone else think the tourney set-up could be better? It would be nice to vary up the groups a little instead of keeping the same teams together right through to the final. Instead the US could play Mexico three times in the tourney.

[Marco4]

Yes, I do, and was thinking exactly the same thing yesterday, except involving Japan and Korea instead of the US and Mexico.

[USSoccer]

They should have just gone all the way and completely copied the World Cup setup.

[bradbury]

Well, they could start by doing it at a time when an inhuried player in the 'classic' didn't effect a team for 3 months. Imagine if Jeter or Lee got hurt, we wouldn't hear the last of it. We've been lucky thus far.

Also, the Round Robin could be longer. Like they kept saying on PTI, it is ridiculous that a team like the US could have only played 2 games, and won one of them, and still be eliminated. So far, however, this 'classic' has been a good one.

[stitchface]

Well, they could start by doing it at a time when an inhuried player in the 'classic' didn't effect a team for 3 months. Imagine if Jeter or Lee got hurt, we wouldn't hear the last of it. We've been lucky thus far.

Also, the Round Robin could be longer. Like they kept saying on PTI, it is ridiculous that a team like the US could have only played 2 games, and won one of them, and still be eliminated. So far, however, this 'classic' has been a good one.

 

Those same injuries could happen in ST games.

[Guest]

I'd rather see teams play three-game series in the semis and finals and have bigger pools for pool play so one bad game can't ruin a team's chances. If they did that, though, the WBC would run right up until the start of the MLB season.

[stitchface]

they could drop the second round of pool play or both rounds. baseball isn't really meant to be played in one game series.

[bradbury]

Those same injuries could happen in ST games.

Yes, they could, but if I were the coach, I would rather have a player not be able to play and them rehab during the offseason than from late March to July.

[stitchface]

Those same injuries could happen in ST games.

Yes, they could, but if I were the coach, I would rather have a player not be able to play and them rehab during the offseason than from late March to July.

 

But how is it different if they get hurt in the WBC or ST?

[erik316wttn]

Start the 2010 WBC about a month after the World Series ends.

[bradbury]

Those same injuries could happen in ST games.

Yes, they could, but if I were the coach, I would rather have a player not be able to play and them rehab during the offseason than from late March to July.

 

But how is it different if they get hurt in the WBC or ST?

I'm sorry. When you said ST, I was thinking September, which didn't make much sense to me either. :oops:

Here's the thing, in spring training, the players are playing for nothing. But in the WBC, they are playing for a prize as well as national pride. They are much more likely to get hurt if they're trying instead of loping along and batting twice every 10 innings.

[Crash]

Well, they could start by doing it at a time when an inhuried player in the 'classic' didn't effect a team for 3 months. Imagine if Jeter or Lee got hurt, we wouldn't hear the last of it. We've been lucky thus far.

Also, the Round Robin could be longer. Like they kept saying on PTI, it is ridiculous that a team like the US could have only played 2 games, and won one of them, and still be eliminated. So far, however, this 'classic' has been a good one.

 

Those same injuries could happen in ST games.

 

But if those injuries are happening in Spring Training at least they are happening when the player is trying to prepare and help the team that is paying his salary. Not to mention the fact that the coaches and trainers of a MLB team are going to be much more worried about keeping a player healthy for when the games actually matter, rather than winning a glorified exhibition game.

[Omar]

Start the 2010 WBC about a month after the World Series ends.

 

It's still going to cause injuries... Players will have nearly 11-month seasons if they count Spring Training... and it will get as much attention as the Pro Bowl - which is bad... It's fine right now being an alternate Spring Training. Players get as much playing time so that should not be an issue at all. In fact, in most cases they face better pitchers, and better batters than they would during Spring Training which will make them even more ready for the regular season.

[1908]

Start the 2010 WBC about a month after the World Series ends.

The majority of MLB players would be 2 months removed from the season in that case. All things considered, March is the best time to hold the classic.

[stitchface]

I'm still thinking about this - the US could have three games against mexico and only one against one of DR, Puerto Rico, Venezuela and Cuba? That stinks. They should have mixed it up in the second round and for the semifinals.

[goonys evil twin]

Those same injuries could happen in ST games.

Yes, they could, but if I were the coach, I would rather have a player not be able to play and them rehab during the offseason than from late March to July.

 

But how is it different if they get hurt in the WBC or ST?

 

It's not different if they get hurt, it's just more likely they will get hurt in an intense competition where there is obviously some bad blood between teams as compared to the relatively laid back atmosphere of spring training.

[1908]

It's not different if they get hurt, it's just more likely they will get hurt in an intense competition where there is obviously some bad blood between teams as compared to the relatively laid back atmosphere of spring training.

Why is it more likely? Do players get hurt more frequently in playoff games compared to regular season games? Playoff games are certainly more "intense." Something can seem intuitive without being true. I'd be curious to see some evidence for the intensity-injury relationship you're suggesting.

[goonys evil twin]

It's not different if they get hurt, it's just more likely they will get hurt in an intense competition where there is obviously some bad blood between teams as compared to the relatively laid back atmosphere of spring training.

Why is it more likely? Do players get hurt more frequently in playoff games compared to regular season games? Playoff games are certainly more "intense." Something can seem intuitive without being true. I'd be curious to see some evidence for the intensity-injury relationship you're suggesting.

 

It'll take a long time to do such a study, considering there's only a handful of games this year, and not any for many years. The biggest problem I see is not-ready pitchers overthrowing, and those same pitchers being more wild than normal and hitting guys on the hands.

 

Anyway, I'm not going to argue about this gimmick with you. It has its pluses, it has its minuses. It's pretty poorly run and set-up, but you might not have been able to do anything differently the first time. If they do keep this gimmick up, hopefully they'll schedule it better, have teams prepared better, televise it properly and provide better umpiring. Then maybe eventually it will be more than a marketing gimmick and will provide actual quality international baseball competition.

[1908]

It'll take a long time to do such a study, considering there's only a handful of games this year, and not any for many years. The biggest problem I see is not-ready pitchers overthrowing, and those same pitchers being more wild than normal and hitting guys on the hands.

We have years and years of regular season and playoff data to use to measure the relationship between intensity and injury. I nominate BK to research it.

 

Anyway, I'm not going to argue about this gimmick with you. It has its pluses, it has its minuses. It's pretty poorly run and set-up, but you might not have been able to do anything differently the first time. If they do keep this gimmick up, hopefully they'll schedule it better, have teams prepared better, televise it properly and provide better umpiring. Then maybe eventually it will be more than a marketing gimmick and will provide actual quality international baseball competition.

I think it's pluses far outweigh it's minuses. Attendance and TV rating have been solid. The players seem to love it. I'm sure they'll improve the logistics next time and make the tournament even better, but I fail to see how even the nay-est of naysayers can label the first WBC as anything but a success.

[goonys evil twin]

It'll take a long time to do such a study, considering there's only a handful of games this year, and not any for many years. The biggest problem I see is not-ready pitchers overthrowing, and those same pitchers being more wild than normal and hitting guys on the hands.

We have years and years of regular season and playoff data to use to measure the relationship between intensity and injury. I nominate BK to research it.

 

Anyway, I'm not going to argue about this gimmick with you. It has its pluses, it has its minuses. It's pretty poorly run and set-up, but you might not have been able to do anything differently the first time. If they do keep this gimmick up, hopefully they'll schedule it better, have teams prepared better, televise it properly and provide better umpiring. Then maybe eventually it will be more than a marketing gimmick and will provide actual quality international baseball competition.

I think it's pluses far outweigh it's minuses. Attendance and TV rating have been solid. The players seem to love it. I'm sure they'll improve the logistics next time and make the tournament even better, but I fail to see how even the nay-est of naysayers can label the first WBC as anything but a success.

 

You couldn't even watch a vital game for the US team in the US, how is that a success? It's been marred with bad umpiring by minor league umps, and the play has been extremely sloppy considering the level these guys are at. I wouldn't assume MLB will improve the logistics or make it better. To assume such a thing is unwise given the history of the organization and its decision making processes.

 

 

Playoff vs regular season won't come close to providing an accurate assessment. Playoff pitchers are ready to pitch. This year's WBC pitchers have not been (at least many of the ones from MLB). That's the problem.

[Cubway]

Did any see D. Lee dive for that foul ball and fall on his ribs? He was slow to get up and the announcers were concerned that he might have really hurt himself. I believe I read where Lee did not start the last two games. Could it be that he did hurt his ribs. If he did, they would probably keep it quiet so as not to give the WBC a bad name. Lee would not have dived like that if it were a ST game.

I also saw a runner for some team dive head-first into first base and also another runner do the same a second base. Both looked like they had hurt themselves. To say that players are just as likely to get hurt in ST is wrong.

[1908]

I knew you wouldn't be able to resist debating this with me.

 

You couldn't even watch a vital game for the US team in the US, how is that a success? It's been marred with bad umpiring by minor league umps, and the play has been extremely sloppy considering the level these guys are at. I wouldn't assume MLB will improve the logistics or make it better. To assume such a thing is unwise given the history of the organization and its decision making processes.

The games have been intense and dramatic -- the most exciting international baseball games I've ever watched. We've gotten to see stars from Cuba, Korea, Japan, etc. that most of us have never seen play before compete against MLB-level talent. The fans care; they've watched and they've attended. You've spend more time condemning this tournament than anyone else on NSBB, and you seem to have watched your fair share of the games. It's a success, and it'll be back.

 

Playoff vs regular season won't come close to providing an accurate assessment. Playoff pitchers are ready to pitch. This year's WBC pitchers have not been (at least many of the ones from MLB). That's the problem.

Pitch counts are in place. Pitchers would be throwing those pitches in spring training games if not in the WBC. The crux of your argument is the intensity factor, and we have no idea whether that's true or not.

[stitchface]

Then maybe eventually it will be more than a marketing gimmick and will provide actual quality international baseball competition

 

wow, you aren't watching are you? Or are you just so cynical that you can't appreciate how great the competition has been?

[stitchface]

Did any see D. Lee dive for that foul ball and fall on his ribs? He was slow to get up and the announcers were concerned that he might have really hurt himself. I believe I read where Lee did not start the last two games. Could it be that he did hurt his ribs. If he did, they would probably keep it quiet so as not to give the WBC a bad name. Lee would not have dived like that if it were a ST game.

I also saw a runner for some team dive head-first into first base and also another runner do the same a second base. Both looked like they had hurt themselves. To say that players are just as likely to get hurt in ST is wrong.

 

Lee sat one game because it was teixeira's turn to start. and yes, he would have dove for that ball at HoHoKam.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I became sold on the WBC after sitting with thousands of Venezuelans down in Orlando last week. The atmosphere around the park was absolutely amazing and rivaled many MLB games I have attended. I still wish it was being played following the WS, but I'll take competitive baseball anytime anywhere.