Offman (the Score) reporting Cubs hot after Lugo

[ThePenguin11]

I think it should be stated, and I do agree with it, that Lugo is overrated. However, it doesn't mean he's average or below average. He's an above average SS who's value on the trade market has been inflated over his true value due to the weak market of available SS's and the teams that would be bidding (BOS,CHI,etc.) and their propensity to everplay for such talent.

[RynoRules]

I really like the idea of Cedeno and Lugo up the middle, especially since it sends He Who Must Not Be Named to his proper position, the bench.

 

In light of that and the rumored Marte swap, would you do Hill for Lugo?

[Gunned]

I really like the idea of Cedeno and Lugo up the middle, especially since it sends He Who Must Not Be Named to his proper position, the bench.

 

In light of that and the rumored Marte swap, would you do Hill for Lugo?

 

Definitely.

[ThePenguin11]

I really like the idea of Cedeno and Lugo up the middle, especially since it sends He Who Must Not Be Named to his proper position, the bench.

 

In light of that and the rumored Marte swap, would you do Hill for Lugo?

 

Definitely.

 

If there's anyone more overrated than Lugo, it might be Rich Hill. However, if we're not trading Hill, Pie, Guzman and company this offseason, does anyone else agree with me that we need to start working these guys in as regulars from the start of 2006?

[Backtobanks]

I've said it in many other posts: Cedeno, given the chance, will not only have a good season this year, but will be comparable to Furcal's best numbers within 2-3 years.

[cubfan1955]

If there's anyone more overrated than Lugo, it might be Rich Hill. However, if we're not trading Hill, Pie, Guzman and company this offseason, does anyone else agree with me that we need to start working these guys in as regulars from the start of 2006?

 

I'd agree Hill is vastly overrated but don't agree he needs to be worked in as a regular in 2006. I don't want Hill anywhere near the Cubs rotation as he throws nothing more than batting practice fodder. It is time for Guzman to either pitch or go away. Pie, after the CPatt debacle, I'm not in favor of bringing him up until after Dusty Baker is gone...hopefully around the All-Star break.

[RynoRules]

I've said it in many other posts: Cedeno, given the chance, will not only have a good season this year, but will be comparable to Furcal's best numbers within 2-3 years.

 

Here here.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I've said it in many other posts: Cedeno, given the chance, will not only have a good season this year, but will be comparable to Furcal's best numbers within 2-3 years.

 

I agree, and I also believe it is likely for him to be better defensively. His arm may not be as strong, but overall I think he can be better. He was a lot of fun to watch in Des Moines, guess I'll have to watch Felix now. :D

[RynoRules]

If there's anyone more overrated than Lugo, it might be Rich Hill. However, if we're not trading Hill, Pie, Guzman and company this offseason, does anyone else agree with me that we need to start working these guys in as regulars from the start of 2006?

 

I'd agree Hill is vastly overrated but don't agree he needs to be worked in as a regular in 2006. I don't want Hill anywhere near the Cubs rotation as he throws nothing more than batting practice fodder. It is time for Guzman to either pitch or go away. Pie, after the CPatt debacle, I'm not in favor of bringing him up until after Dusty Baker is gone...hopefully around the All-Star break.

 

So we shouldn't rush Pie but we should rush Guzman?

[cubfan1955]

So we shouldn't rush Pie but we should rush Guzman?

 

Guzman has been around for awhile now. He was slated to come up and take Priors spot in 2003 and only didn't because he got injured.

[brfahey]

Is there anything new regarding Ofman's original report?

[goonys evil twin]

To be fair the Lugo comparison was to a 29 year-old Neifi Perez. I'm pretty sure he was an all star caliber player at that time. He was surely overrated, but much better than he is now - probably since he was playing in Colorado for the majority of his career at that point. But - Lugo's comparison would hold more water at with that in mind.

 

All star caliber is a stretch. He didn't make the all start team. In his age 29 season, Neifi hit .236/.260/.303 for KC. The year before he was better, but still pretty bad. Lugo is better than Neifi was at the time, but not by a very wide margin. The point is he's already 30, not very good, and will be worse in the near future. He'll get overpaid. So, within a few years, you're risking paying $8-10m per year for a guy who might be putting up Neifi Perez numbers. And it's not just a shot in the dark risk, but a real possibility. Lugo is not anywhere near the elite SS, just like Furcal isn't elite. If you traded for him, the best decision you could make next offseason is probably to let him walk, but if you traded Cedeno for him, you've got no fallback option.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Lugo is better than Neifi was at the time, but not by a very wide margin. The point is he's already 30, not very good, and will be worse in the near future. He'll get overpaid. So, within a few years, you're risking paying $8-10m per year for a guy who might be putting up Neifi Perez numbers. And it's not just a shot in the dark risk, but a real possibility.

 

I just wanted to highlight this for those who may advocate giving up way too much for Lugo. He is not the missing link, and I don't think he's worth anywhere near the potential price tag.

[stitchface]

So we shouldn't rush Pie but we should rush Guzman?

 

Guzman has been around for awhile now. He was slated to come up and take Priors spot in 2003 and only didn't because he got injured.

 

I don't understand why you would want him to "go away." What's the harm in him hanging around?

[Wheelimus]

Yikes, I did not realize how BAD Lugo has been throughout his career. Guess the freshest thing in my memory is the year he had last season.

 

Just say no, I mean, career line of .276/.340/.400/.740, sorry, Cedeno can probably give you that. Jerry Hairston will probably come close.

 

With the crap that's available, if you're going to get rid of Walker "'cause he don't catch da ball", then just dump him for prospects, ugh, hopefully the double play combo is Cedeno and Hairston.

[goonys evil twin]

So we shouldn't rush Pie but we should rush Guzman?

 

Guzman has been around for awhile now. He was slated to come up and take Priors spot in 2003 and only didn't because he got injured.

 

There's a big difference between Pie and Guzman. Pie turns 21 next month, while Guzman already turned 24, and Angel has been around a lot longer. Given his track record, he pretty much has to prove himself this year or he's got little value to the team. Pie is still a couple years away from the time when he has to start producing in the majors or risk becoming a falling star.

[stitchface]

So we shouldn't rush Pie but we should rush Guzman?

 

Guzman has been around for awhile now. He was slated to come up and take Priors spot in 2003 and only didn't because he got injured.

 

There's a big difference between Pie and Guzman. Pie turns 21 next month, while Guzman already turned 24, and Angel has been around a lot longer. Given his track record, he pretty much has to prove himself this year or he's got little value to the team. Pie is still a couple years away from the time when he has to start producing in the majors or risk becoming a falling star.

 

Until he costs the team something useful, there is no reason for him to "go away."

[goonys evil twin]

So we shouldn't rush Pie but we should rush Guzman?

 

Guzman has been around for awhile now. He was slated to come up and take Priors spot in 2003 and only didn't because he got injured.

 

I don't understand why you would want him to "go away." What's the harm in him hanging around?

 

Taking up space on the 40 man is the harm, not to mention relegating other prospects to lesser roles. It's not a problem now, but if he can't pitch well for most of 2006, they really would be better off cutting ties. He turns 25 next offseason, will have been on the 40 man for 3 years, 5 years removed from a good full season. You can't continue to pour resources into a player like that, when you're constantly giving up on and losing others for nothing because their ceiling isn't as high.

[goonys evil twin]

So we shouldn't rush Pie but we should rush Guzman?

 

Guzman has been around for awhile now. He was slated to come up and take Priors spot in 2003 and only didn't because he got injured.

 

There's a big difference between Pie and Guzman. Pie turns 21 next month, while Guzman already turned 24, and Angel has been around a lot longer. Given his track record, he pretty much has to prove himself this year or he's got little value to the team. Pie is still a couple years away from the time when he has to start producing in the majors or risk becoming a falling star.

 

Until he costs the team something useful, there is no reason for him to "go away."

 

It's not his fault, but they lost Sisco to an overstuffed 40 man roster. Now that the farm system is all depth and no high quality it's even more likely that guys will be lost because of a lack of space. They've lost the time, space and money so far. If it goes another year like it has since 2003, they'll have lost even more of the same. He's got to do some very good things in 2006 to justify them keeping him around.

[cubfan1955]

I don't understand why you would want him to "go away." What's the harm in him hanging around?

 

He can't stay healthy for even a half year. He makes Wood look like an iron man. (Not knocking Wood, he's one of my favorite players.) He needs to do something pretty soon to justify his spot on the 40 man roster.

[Gunned]

Yikes, I did not realize how BAD Lugo has been throughout his career.

 

Man, what's with the hyperbole today?

 

First ALL of the blame for Corey falls on the Cubs, and now Julio Lugo has been BAD throughout his career?

[Cubzfan64]

Okay, so the Red Sox trade Renteria and $11 million to the Braves for Marte. Then they trade Marte to the Devil Rays for Lugo and his $5 million contract? So basically they're paying $16 million for a 1-year rental in Lugo? I don't see the Red Sox trading Marte for Lugo.

 

I didn't say it would be a smart or fiscally responsible thing to do, but we're only what 8 weeks or so from the start of spring training and Boston has NOBODY to play CF, no leadoff hitter and a utility guy pegged to start at SS - I honestly don't see them going into the season with Cora slated to be there every day. They've got TONS of pressure on them right now with what the Blue Jays and Yankees have done to improve themselves - not to mention the controversy around losing their GM. Lugo would fill 2 of their 3 holes at leadoff and SS and at least give them a fighting chance in their division.

 

If they don't make the move to get Lugo, I see them being a 3rd or 4th place team in that division - even with Lugo they have plenty more question marks than they've had the last few years.

 

There's no GM in baseball who's going to basically pay $16 million for 1 year of Lugo. They have a young kid in Pedroia who could get a chance to win the spot in spring training. He was basically blocked by Ramirez, so they moved him over to 2b. Their hole at SS is not nearly as big as the hole they have in CF.

 

I wouldn't expect a straight up Marte for Lugo deal - I could see some other names being involved to get something done though (Gaithright, Huff, Clement, Arroyo, Shoppach...).

[stitchface]

I don't understand why you would want him to "go away." What's the harm in him hanging around?

 

He can't stay healthy for even a half year. He makes Wood look like an iron man. (Not knocking Wood, he's one of my favorite players.) He needs to do something pretty soon to justify his spot on the 40 man roster.

 

well, not much was lost this year. I guess that evaluation can be made next fall. They should have traded Guzman a couple years ago. I am wondering if drafting and developing pitchers is really a good way to go.

[stitchface]

Okay, so the Red Sox trade Renteria and $11 million to the Braves for Marte. Then they trade Marte to the Devil Rays for Lugo and his $5 million contract? So basically they're paying $16 million for a 1-year rental in Lugo? I don't see the Red Sox trading Marte for Lugo.

 

I didn't say it would be a smart or fiscally responsible thing to do, but we're only what 8 weeks or so from the start of spring training and Boston has NOBODY to play CF, no leadoff hitter and a utility guy pegged to start at SS - I honestly don't see them going into the season with Cora slated to be there every day. They've got TONS of pressure on them right now with what the Blue Jays and Yankees have done to improve themselves - not to mention the controversy around losing their GM. Lugo would fill 2 of their 3 holes at leadoff and SS and at least give them a fighting chance in their division.

 

If they don't make the move to get Lugo, I see them being a 3rd or 4th place team in that division - even with Lugo they have plenty more question marks than they've had the last few years.

 

There's no GM in baseball who's going to basically pay $16 million for 1 year of Lugo. They have a young kid in Pedroia who could get a chance to win the spot in spring training. He was basically blocked by Ramirez, so they moved him over to 2b. Their hole at SS is not nearly as big as the hole they have in CF.

 

I wouldn't expect a straight up Marte for Lugo deal - I could see some other names being involved to get something done though (Gaithright, Huff, Clement, Arroyo, Shoppach...).

 

if the price is anywhere near marte, the cubs should not be a part of this discussion. Lugo isn't BAD for a SS, but he is no cornerstone of the future.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't understand why you would want him to "go away." What's the harm in him hanging around?

 

He can't stay healthy for even a half year. He makes Wood look like an iron man. (Not knocking Wood, he's one of my favorite players.) He needs to do something pretty soon to justify his spot on the 40 man roster.

 

well, not much was lost this year. I guess that evaluation can be made next fall. They should have traded Guzman a couple years ago. I am wondering if drafting and developing pitchers is really a good way to go.

 

I'm not doubting that its' a good plan, I just doubt whether the Cubs now how to do it well, and if taking that plan to the extreme is smart.