Yes, you are. Come now. Are you saying the pitcher has no impact in the game whatsoever? I understand that as a stand alone stat, win's are more a measure of the team's preformance than the individual pitcher's. But, the team's preformance (W-L record) is a reflection of the preformance of the Batting and the Pitching. You cannot say that it has nothing to do with the pitcher. It's completely absurd to say so. while pitching well can certainly help a pitchers chance of getting a W, for the most part, the W department is up to the offense. The pitcher can give up 32 runs. If the offense scores 33, then he still gets a win. I was exaggerating when saying has NOTHING to do with it, i guess. But for the most part, it has more to do with offense then pitching. How else do you explain Estes last year. I'd say that the Estes scenario from last season is more the exception. Pitchers do usually have to pitch at the very least decent to get that many wins (simply because of potentially losing rotation spots, not going 5 innings, etc) Also Jeriome Robertson in 2003 was a huge exception with 15 wins and an ERA over 5. At this point, I don't believe he's in the majors.