moorecg

Refreshing insight, but I don't think anyone is advocating "Man, we've got to get Counsell...he's the last piece to the Puzzle" I thought the discussion was "Counsell or Bynum." In that context, I think it is fair to "pick" Counsell...would we like someone better, hell yes, but as I understand it that wasn't the question. And yet Bynum, as bad as he is, was still better than Counsell last year, and younger and he's cheaper. The discussion was that Counsell is supposedly on Hendry's radar, that's terrible news. Only when guaged by OPS...anyway, this discussion is nowhere near worth the time its taking...and pointless on several levels... Hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving.

Refreshing insight, but I don't think anyone is advocating "Man, we've got to get Counsell...he's the last piece to the Puzzle" I thought the discussion was "Counsell or Bynum." In that context, I think it is fair to "pick" Counsell...would we like someone better, hell yes, but as I understand it that wasn't the question.

I hope I never have to hear those two words in connection with a Cubs managerial move ever again. I'm not saying I like the idea, or even that I like Counsell...just that I like Counsell better than Bynum as a player...(there is an argument for Bynum that he's faster so if we need a base swiped, or a runner to advance on a sac fly, or score on a single from 2nd late in the game he'd be better, and he'll likely be cheaper, but that doesnt' seem to matter much anymore). That being said, I don't love either option. Last year Bynum had an OPS+ of 90, Counsell was 69. If we are counting on the slugging of either Counsell or Bynum to get us anywhere then we might as well just quit now. We aren't "counting" on it, but the fact is Bynum was more productive last year. It doesn't make much sense to go out and pay more for less productive bench players. I have no desire to get into a drawn out discussion of the relative merits of Freddy Bynum v. Craig Counsell, that being said, declaring that Bynum was more productive doesn't make it so. Yes, his OPS+ was better than Counsell...wheee, while I'm not stat man, I'd guess the relative sample size is far from being representative. Moreover, In what we'd ideally use him for (late inning, pinch hitter, last guy off the bench) I take Counsell, Why? Well, in almost 200 more atbats, Counsell struck out a total of 3 more times. I think we can all agree that, usually, it doesn't matter how you make outs (see ad nausem discussions of Brad Wilkerson and/or Adam Dunn) just whether you get on base, well, not only does Counsell get on base at a slightly higher rate...in the situations he'd be used, strike outs do matter a little bit more, at least to me...7th, 8th, and 9th innings, if there is a guy on 2nd, I'd rather have a ball in play than a K, Counsell gives you a better chance at that. And no, this doesn't take in to account $$, I think I said somewhere above that it seems obvious that 500K +/- doesn't seem to matter this year, if I didn't, that does go into my equation. Basically what I'm saying is that if I'm on the playground and these are the last two guys standing, I pick Counsell.

I hope I never have to hear those two words in connection with a Cubs managerial move ever again. I'm not saying I like the idea, or even that I like Counsell...just that I like Counsell better than Bynum as a player...(there is an argument for Bynum that he's faster so if we need a base swiped, or a runner to advance on a sac fly, or score on a single from 2nd late in the game he'd be better, and he'll likely be cheaper, but that doesnt' seem to matter much anymore). That being said, I don't love either option. Last year Bynum had an OPS+ of 90, Counsell was 69. If we are counting on the slugging of either Counsell or Bynum to get us anywhere then we might as well just quit now.

I hope I never have to hear those two words in connection with a Cubs managerial move ever again. I'm not saying I like the idea, or even that I like Counsell...just that I like Counsell better than Bynum as a player...(there is an argument for Bynum that he's faster so if we need a base swiped, or a runner to advance on a sac fly, or score on a single from 2nd late in the game he'd be better, and he'll likely be cheaper, but that doesnt' seem to matter much anymore). That being said, I don't love either option.

Counsell every day, twice on Sunday. Just say no to fast freddie. I guess I just don't see what Counsell can do at this point that Bynum can't. Gets on base a little more, doesn't strike out NEAR as much and is more likely to replace Isturiz and/or DeRosa in a double switch than Murton.

Counsell every day, twice on Sunday. Just say no to fast freddie.

Sorry...unwilling to go back through the full 100+ pages of posts to see if this has been discussed before...but, just curious...Assuming he doesn't loose a spot because of it, who on earth can be happier than Matt Murton right now? If Soriano leads off it should go like this: Soriano Murton Lee Ramirez Jones Barrett DeRosa Isturiz That has to be one of the more plum spots to hit in all of the Major leagues doesn't it? He's going to see a LOT more pitches this year, and with his plate dicipline that could mean HUGE things.

If this is true, we are now paying Soriano more than Pujols is getting in STL...and for a longer period. Think about that for a second. That being said, if we just ignore the $$ for a sec....Yeah...we signed a big free agent...if he plays Center and leads off we're on the right track. (somewhere in the distance Carlos Zambrano's agent just pissed himself with anticipation)

Ding Ding Ding.... we have a winner.

I don't think it's enough. There's still only 2 legit power threats in Lee & Ram in the middle of the order. You've got to consider Jones a power threat don't you? He's not a #3 hitter, but for the 3rd or 4th bat in the lineup he's not bad. Barrett falls in as a quality bat too...its not the 27 yankees, but it has the potential to be pretty solid.

So I'm not overwhellmed with this...but, if he is the 2b against righties and takes Jaque out of the lineup by playing right against righties, I can't be too upset. I'd like hear Hendry has to say about him. Even if he is an every day player at either SS or 2b, he's better offensivly than what we had last year at either position.

just saw on SportsCenter - 2 years, $18-19M. I think this is a bad deal from the Cards' perspective. Of course I'm sure he'll turn back into a 160-170 OPS+ guy and it'll all work out fine for them as they win each of the next two World Series. My thoughts exactly...although, seriously...talk about bidding against yourself...they had him locked up for next year at 10 and they "renegotiated" him to come back at 11? Is Hendry working for them now?

Great plate coverage too...

Right now Hendry may be looking at signing Mercer and Miller...they're tall...would cut down on line drives that make it through the middle.

I have to disagree. I had the chance to meet him last year at a fund raiser...he stood and talked baseball with me for 10-15 minutes, was a very nice guy and jokingly as I walked away he said "Hey...I hope your team has a bad year" to which I replied "you too!" He was actually much much nicer than I ever would have guessed from what I see on TV.

That might push me over the edge.

We'd be better...and only in need of 2 more starting pitchers

The Cubs also haven't won a world series since Jimmy Slagle retired at the end of 1908. We should bring him back. and have yet to win it all in their new stadium I can't wait for what our dear cardinal fans will come up with to emphasize this little tid bit of info.

its not like he will anwser and i dont want it to get deleted the cards winning it all is nowhere near as bad as the sox. :shock: I, among some others, would disagree. I think it matters where you grew up or where you live. I still think Cardinal fans are some of the most arrogant fans in all of sports. Nope it doesn't for most of us. I live in the heart of Chicago and I can tell you the Cards winning is worse. about 100000 times worse for those of us down here.

Life hates me. You're at least safe from the Cardinal fans. Do I attend the parade Sunday in cubs gear? We can go together....it'll be like the final sceen from Mr. and Mrs. Smith...you me, back to back, just firing in every direction we can ... (overly sensitive people...i'm joking...I won't shoot people)

Well this god awful season has finally come to a close...in what I feel is the absolute worst case scenario....please...someone...give me some home...besides guys who won't play...(you know, Lou, 1st base coach, 3rd base coach, Prior)...tell me we're signing someone to make this team better.

Ditto.

Trust me...it is brutal. I've never been more angry at the Cubs...how can they expect fans to suffer through this crap when our absolute two biggest rivals are defending WS champs....

Don't you know that a #4 starter is all that's keeping us from the WS? That, and about 29 other teams that are better than us.