Mizzou

Or you could always just have a list of the top, say, 20 free agents and have Serena start a thread with people responding with their entries there.

That and throwing a hitter batting his weight first ptich fastballs when that is all he's been able to hit the entire season. Those were the real Cubs. They were/are a medicore team in a terrible division. Hack, hack, and hack some more. We've been talking about for as long as I've been posting on this board. It's like they didn't bother scouting at all. They were too patient with Webb and too hack happy with everyone else. Arizona lived on the outside corner. Then they throw fastballs to Chis F Young and make him look like Willy Maze when he's closer to Willy Tavaraz. I'm still bitter. Seriously?

I love it. After all the talk, the Yankees offer him a deal to come back, but with a huge pay cut, and Torre tells them to shove it. Good for him!

How do you figure that Soriano and Lee were more valuable than Ramirez this year?

Braun 5th in ROY? Lee and Soriano ahead of Ramirez in MVP? Why?

Supporting Theriot for what? Starter? Or starter over Cedeno, if given the choice between the two? I'm in the latter category. And no, I wasn't happy with Izturis. Why would anyone have been? Supporting Theriot as a starter, and saying he had a good year. Look at Izturis's numbers and look at Theriots they are identical. That is how bad Theriot was, he was on par with Cesar Izturis, but for some reason(see GRIT factor) people are saying Theriot had a good year, its really hard to believe. Identical? Theriot's OPS was 55 points higher than Cesar's. Hardly identical. And I don't know who is saying that Theriot had a good year. My whole thing all along has been that Theriot is more likely to give you better production than Cedeno next year. I haven't said that he had a good year. Theriot had over 200 more ab's than Izturis and his 55 point OPS advantage is basically from him hitting 6 hrs and Izturis hitting 0. Their average is basically identical, so is their OBP. So Theriot hits more hrs than Izturis and does everything else on par with Izturis, there is not much difference at all. Also Theriots numbers get a huge boost because of him OPS'ing over 900 1 month. That says alot right there. Even with him OPS'ing over 900 for a full month, and Izturis never breaking 790, they are still very close overall for a full season. They are both 28 years old. The comparison is very valid. And you must not have read this thread if you havent seen people saying Theriots had a good year. Theriot had 3 HR's, not 6. He also had more than twice as many doubles as Izturis did. But the bottom line is that his OPS was 55 points higher than Izturis's. I don't know why you're trying to overlook that or make it seem insignificant. And we apparently have differing definitions of the word identical. Because Theriot's average and OBP (along with SLG and OPS) were not identical to Izturis's. They were better. And your comment about Theriot being on par with Izturis in every category is flat out wrong. Theriot is better than Izturis in every category. Why are you trying to say otherwise?

Supporting Theriot for what? Starter? Or starter over Cedeno, if given the choice between the two? I'm in the latter category. And no, I wasn't happy with Izturis. Why would anyone have been? Supporting Theriot as a starter, and saying he had a good year. Look at Izturis's numbers and look at Theriots they are identical. That is how bad Theriot was, he was on par with Cesar Izturis, but for some reason(see GRIT factor) people are saying Theriot had a good year, its really hard to believe. Identical? Theriot's OPS was 55 points higher than Cesar's. Hardly identical. And I don't know who is saying that Theriot had a good year. My whole thing all along has been that Theriot is more likely to give you better production than Cedeno next year. I haven't said that he had a good year.

Supporting Theriot for what? Starter? Or starter over Cedeno, if given the choice between the two? I'm in the latter category. And no, I wasn't happy with Izturis. Why would anyone have been?

That is hilarious. My favorite part...

6.5 million a year for a guy who was an above average starter last year. Not a bad deal for the Cards.

I find it odd that my card was charged seconds after purchasing the tickets, but here we are 9 days after we knew that the Cubs wouldn't be playing in the NLCS and I still haven't received my (partial) refund.

obviously if you were concerned with facts you would have looked it up. your contributions to this topic are therefore pretty worthless. Again with a pointless and stupid comment. What's your problem? Try responding to the body of my post rather than nitpicking at crap.

David Kelton mashed AAA pitching? Kelton's AAA OPS is in the mid .700s in just under 1400 at-bats. His best single-season OPS at AAA was .784. I don't think mizzou is concerned with facts or reality. Great post. Thanks for contributing. I assumed Kelton hit minor league pitching well and didn't bother to look it up. That's neither here nor there though. This is about Ronny Cedeno's inability to hit a baseball at the major league level. And who should be at SS? Once again, what is wrong with letting him compete with Theriot in ST for the starting SS? Theriot did nothing to prove he should go into next year as the starter and Cedeno has shown enough glimpses and tools to deserve a shot to compete for that spot if it is a battle between the two. I think it's too early to say Cedeno sucks. I think right now, he has just as good of a chance to beat out Theriot as Theriot does of remaining as the starter, under the assumption that it would be a fair competition. What's the point in letting them compete in spring training? Ronny has shown that he can hit minor league pitching, I'm sure he'll continue to do so in spring training next year. His problem is hitting major league pitching. Deciding who your starting SS is based on spring training at bats is never a good idea. Personally, I hope we acquire a SS via the trade market and Theriot is on the bench with Cedeno in AAA. But if the choice is between Theriot and Cedeno, I'll take the guy who has a higher career OPS than Jose Macias.

BECAUSE HE WAS 23 WHEN HE PUT UP THOSE NUMBERS. PS - love the straw man. Why don't you do a quick check of the minor league numbers of every hall of famer. I don't know, but I'm willing to bet that most of them put up pretty good numbers in the minors. Does that mean that everyone who puts up great numbers in the minors is a hall of famer? No, but your lame argument doesn't hold any more water than that one. AND HE WAS 22 WHEN HE PUT UP GREAT NUMBERS IN THE MINORS THE YEAR BEFORE THAT. Did he suddenly forget how to hit because he aged a year? I don't care how young he was. He sucked. This is a classic case of a guy who can't hit major league pitching. You're really this dense? He was 24 last year and put up great numbers. Maybe he suddenly learned how to hit again! If Cedeno had gone down to Iowa last year and continued to suck, I would have written him off. He showed very little in his year with the Cubs and I was worried that it was more than youth - that he was really just bad and 2005 was a fluke. But then he went down and basically matched his '05 numbers in '07. So now what's the real Cedeno? '05 and '07 of .900+ OPS from a young shortstop? Or '06, .600-ish OPS from a young shortstop? I haven't the foggiest idea, but as between a 25-year-old Cedeno who has 2 great AAA seasons in the last 3 years and a 28-year-old Theriot who...doesn't, I'll take Cedeno. We're not giving up ARod, we're not even giving up Eckstein, we're giving up a bad player for a younger one with potential. He was 23 and trying to hit major league pitching. Maybe he'll never be able to, but there are a lot of guys who would hit terribly in the majors at 23 who went on to be great players. Many great major leaguers aren't even in AAA at 23. If you forced every player to play a full year in the majors when they were 23 and decided based on those numbers alone whether they would ever be any good, you'd lose a lot of great players (and, more importantly for our purposes, you'd miss out on a huge number of average and good players who just weren't good enough to hit major league pitching at 23). I don't care what he has done in the minors. He can dominate and hit 400 home runs per year, but if he sucks at the major league level, then who cares? Yes, he went back to Iowa this year and tore it up. He then returned to Chicago and looked awful. Like he did all of last year. So he's great in the minors and terrible in the majors. Does that sum it up pretty accurately? You want to hand him the job over Theriot next year because of his potential? Theriot has been better, much better, than Cedeno in his major league career. Why should he have his job stripped from him and handed to a guy who, in 700 major league at bats, hasn't shown that he knows how to hit at this level? If our two options next year are Theriot and Cedeno, Ryan should be the starter. If he gets hurt, then let's see if Ronny can improve on that 53 OPS+ that he put up in '06. But he shouldn't just be given the job because he's better against minor league pitching. That's absurd.

BECAUSE HE WAS 23 WHEN HE PUT UP THOSE NUMBERS. PS - love the straw man. Why don't you do a quick check of the minor league numbers of every hall of famer. I don't know, but I'm willing to bet that most of them put up pretty good numbers in the minors. Does that mean that everyone who puts up great numbers in the minors is a hall of famer? No, but your lame argument doesn't hold any more water than that one. AND HE WAS 22 WHEN HE PUT UP GREAT NUMBERS IN THE MINORS THE YEAR BEFORE THAT. Did he suddenly forget how to hit because he aged a year? I don't care how young he was. He sucked. This is a classic case of a guy who can't hit major league pitching.

Fixed. But yeah, I liked this contest. What ever happened to it? Bring it back!

I really don't get the Ronny Cedeno love here. The guy mashed AAA pitching... big deal, a lot of people do. Jason Dubois did. David Kelton did. What are they up to these days? Why people are so willing to push aside Cedeno's atrocious career major league numbers and use his minor league numbers is beyond me. At least be consistent. You can't throw out some stats and keep the others. But if you're going to only use one set of stats, use the ones that matter most -- the major league ones. Cedeno sucks. I'm fine with having him as the 25th man but he's not a realistic option to be a starter.

I haven't received my refund yet either. I wonder if they're just refunding the local people first. It seems that way based off of the people who have posted here. Or maybe it's just coincidence.

Sucks to be a Reds fan right now.

God damn Pinkel. How about letting our stud QB throw the ball on a huge third down rather than the punt returner/kick returner/wide receiver. Just a terrible time to try some crap trick play.

What a frustrating first half that was. We're lucky to only be down a TD. Hopefully Pinkel gets these guys going in the second half.

I read that earlier today. Is that your opinion, or is that from Hendry's mouth? Because it reads like you're speculating that they wont pick it up. It's based on very good sourcing with the Cubs. I talk to them every day. Good to know. I just wanted to make sure this was coming from them before I got my hopes up. Thanks!

David Ortiz has reached base in 14 out of his 16 plate appearances thus far in the postseason. :shock:

I read that earlier today. Is that your opinion, or is that from Hendry's mouth? Because it reads like you're speculating that they wont pick it up.

I never said Theriot was better than DeRosa, what I did say was a interrogative statement asking why one automatically assumes DeRosa instantly gets the job at 2b over Theriot-if Theriot is forced from short that is-without competiton during spring training. Haha, what? And DeRosa should automatically be given the job because he's better than Theriot. The same reason Derrek Lee won't be battling Darryl Ward for the starting 1B job in Spring Training. Did you just compare Lee-Ward and DeRosa-Theriot? I really hope you didn't, I'm disgusted at the comparison. Are you really disgusted? Seriously? Cause that's kind of weird. But yeah, I'd say it's a pretty good comparison. Lee is clearly better than Ward, and DeRosa is clearly better than Theriot. What am I missing here?