Mizzou

Agreed. The "he needs rehab" talk in this thread has been a bit over the top. And has this been confirmed that he's going to be gone? Who was our 3B coach during tonight's game?

Yea, and David Berkowitz was a great mailman, even if he was the Son of Sam . . . Face it, Sammy's a tool - plain and simple Do adults actually call people tools? I remember kids saying that in high school, but I haven't heard it since then.

Did that game just start? It rained here earlier, but I didn't know it was still raining in the city.

Sammy's either going to come back and be God awful, or he's going to stay retired. I really can't see any way he would be even a decent hitter at this point. Stay retired, Sammy.

i guess. but so what. My so what is that I think it is a myth that Maddux helps out the young starters. I'm sure he mentions this and that, and maybe it offers a bit of help, but I don't think that help is a substantial improvement at all, and surely not one that should be any reason not to get something for Maddux at the deadline. I think he should definitely be traded, but I also think that he certainly helps our youngsters out a lot. Who do you think they listen to more - Maddux or Rothschild? During a game a few weeks ago Len said that someone, Marshall I believe, had sort of latched onto Maddux from the moment he got up here. I don't think it's a myth at all that Greg has given our younger pitchers a lot of advice on how to be a successful major league pitcher.

You make some good points, but if we're talking about the better player, replacement players aren't relevant. You're talking about value, whereas when you're discussing who is better, all that matters is production. I won't argue that Sosa was more valuable than Santo. I will say that Sammy was more productive than him though, and therefore he was better. And that's what the list is all about, right - who was more productive? No doubt. And I wasn't trying to take anything away from Santo. He belongs in the Hall, in my opinion. I just think that Sammy was a better player.

Thanks for the convincing counter-argument. I don't really have the time right now to give too convincing of an argument, but I'll say a couple things. Ron Santo was a very good ballplayer, an admittedly better one than I had always thought after I just checked his numbers again. But to say that he was better than Sosa is just ridiculous. First off, can we please throw this WARP crap out the window? We're simply talking about a ballplayer, not who was better at his respective position relative to his peers, but the "greatest Cub." Sammy's career OPS: 882, which is 122 points higher than the league average. Santo's career OPS: 826, which is 93 points better than the league average. Also, Sammy's career OPS+ is better than Santo's. Another thing which begs discussion is what makes a player "great." Is it simply being a monster at the plate? Or are more variables involved? Does being a baseball icon make you greater than a non-icon? I think so, and Sammy clearly was an icon during his glory years. He was one of the top 2-3 hitters in all of baseball from 1998 to 2001. I'll tell you right now that I don't know how big of a "star" Santo was, but based on his stats, I'm going to wager that he wasn't ever one of the game's elite players. Good, certainly. But one of the best? I doubt it. I'm sorry, and its just my opinion, but I think its absurd to say that Ron Santo was a greater Cub than Sammy Sosa.

Santo better than Sosa? Please.

What an idiot.

This is the beginning of a looooooong winning streak. Two games is long for the Cubs.

False dilemma. He could do both, you know. But we're only up by two, right? There's this thing called the bottom of the 9th. Ah, I forgot they were in Chicago.

False dilemma. He could do both, you know. But we're only up by two, right?

I wonder if Dempster is going to give up a grand slam or just a 3 run homer.

The hit and run is the stupidest play in all of baseball. Why do you say that?

Neifi seriously tried stealing second? Good Lord.

I don't know why I bother looking at the lineups anymore. I know that I'm going to see something stupid like Nevin playing over Murton, or Neifi playing over anyone.

Good stuff, that was fun to watch.

Is the search ever going to work again? I can't even remember the last time it did. Was it last year?

Nice to see that they're finally mentioning the right names except Perez. If we could move them and get some decent you players in return I'd be pretty happy. There's also a blurb about the Cubs and Marlins being interested in Willy Tavarez right above that. LINK I don't mind having Neifi on next year's team if Dusty is gone.

Watching Z hustle to beat out that infield single, then steal second was simply glorious. Does anyone have the video of that?

Blueheart, have you met oldcubsfan?

please tell me you aren't serious Ohhhh, Crosby, Stills, and Nash. And Young. I've never heard them referred to as CSNY before. Thank goodness for Google.

Who the hell is CSNY?

Lofton God I wish we would have signed him this past offseason.

Is the game over??