CuseCubFan69

That drastically changes things If Scioscia actually heard that being yelled by the home plate ump then the umps have a problem.

I still haven't heard from Paul yet about the verbal out call.

This was printed earlier in this thread. In addition, BBTN did a video recap of every incident like the one in the bottom of the 9th. He clearly did the same movement for every swinging strike that was not dropped. In regards to rules, there is nothing I can find that says that an umpire has to say a ruling. In regards to the delayed call, here's what MLB tells the umpires under rule 9.05: Then my question is what does he do to tell the difference between strike 3 and you're out? He put his hand out to say it was not a foul ball but what would he do to say it's a strike but not an out? By the way, this will be a great lesson for my kids! NOT pump his first, which is what he did in 3 examples that I showed in my last post. Since the fist pump says it's an out why did he delay and why did Paul assume it was a K even though he didn't puch AJP out yet? I understand that he thought he caught the ball but the delay means something and the rolling of the ball came too early IMO. The ump blew the call please let me reiterate that once again. I just think assuming something to be may land you in trouble as it did Paul. AJP saw the delay between calls and Paul should have too IMO. I also beleive if there is any doubt make sure you do all you can to eliminate it. edit: I know he is suppose to delay to make sure of the right call. Ironic eh?

To say it was a strike. But that is what he does for outs. There have been plenty of examples showing this. If it was simply a strike and the ball hit the ground, he would have yelled and not made the fist pump. Nothing he did suggests that it was anything other than an out, based on the whole game, and the umps mechanics What sign did he use for strike 1 or 2?

Exactly, he should have just gone with the arm movement for the non-foul ball. IMO, he screwed up and used the punchout sign to signal it was the third strike.

This was printed earlier in this thread. In addition, BBTN did a video recap of every incident like the one in the bottom of the 9th. He clearly did the same movement for every swinging strike that was not dropped. In regards to rules, there is nothing I can find that says that an umpire has to say a ruling. In regards to the delayed call, here's what MLB tells the umpires under rule 9.05: Then my question is what does he do to tell the difference between strike 3 and you're out? He put his hand out to say it was not a foul ball but what would he do to say it's a strike but not an out? By the way, this will be a great lesson for my kids! Do you coach a youth team? High School.

He pulls his arm in and clinches his fist, which is what I always thought was the signal for out. I don't think you can see his lips to be able to tell if he yelled "you're out" unfortunately. I know for a fact that HS umps pump their fist for the 3rd strike but do not yell you're out until the play has been made. It's a habit when a strike is called. But this ump does not, as every other at bat showed. The fist pump means out. If it meant strike three, but your not out then why on dropped balls did he not pump his fist until the play was finished. But did he delay like that? Something was up with the delay. Regardless of the delay he made the signal. Why make it if the play is not done? To say it was a strike.

This was printed earlier in this thread. In addition, BBTN did a video recap of every incident like the one in the bottom of the 9th. He clearly did the same movement for every swinging strike that was not dropped. In regards to rules, there is nothing I can find that says that an umpire has to say a ruling. In regards to the delayed call, here's what MLB tells the umpires under rule 9.05: Then my question is what does he do to tell the difference between strike 3 and you're out? He put his hand out to say it was not a foul ball but what would he do to say it's a strike but not an out? By the way, this will be a great lesson for my kids!

Regardless of whether or not he saw the signal he was called out by the umpire. If the Angels actually heard "You're out" then they have a 100% legit beef. If they assumed they heard it then we have a problem. I'm curious on what Paul heard. Doesn't the fact the there was the fist pump, signaling him out, make the beef legit? I said 100%. The Angels have a very valid arguement I have never denied that. Also, for anyone that taped the game I think it would matter what the ump did the whole game to determine his pattern for K's. they went through that on BBTN last nite....he clearly made the same call on all swinging third strikes...he would raise his right hand signaling no contact and do the fist pump....he called ajp out, it' clear. He delayed a lot more with that K then he did the previous ones. His indecision caused this whole debacle.

He pulls his arm in and clinches his fist, which is what I always thought was the signal for out. I don't think you can see his lips to be able to tell if he yelled "you're out" unfortunately. I know for a fact that HS umps pump their fist for the 3rd strike but do not yell you're out until the play has been made. It's a habit when a strike is called. But this ump does not, as every other at bat showed. The fist pump means out. If it meant strike three, but your not out then why on dropped balls did he not pump his fist until the play was finished. But did he delay like that? Something was up with the delay.

If an MLB has to yell it to be an out then what's the purpose of making the signal? I do not know the MLB rules regarding this DJAXX. I know that HS umps are more vocal when it's an out and by using visual and verbal aids it helps everyone. How does a catcher know anything unless the ump yells ball or strike?

Regardless of whether or not he saw the signal he was called out by the umpire. If the Angels actually heard "You're out" then they have a 100% legit beef. If they assumed they heard it then we have a problem. I'm curious on what Paul heard. Doesn't the fact the there was the fist pump, signaling him out, make the beef legit? I said 100%. The Angels have a very valid arguement I have never denied that. Also, for anyone that taped the game I think it would matter what the ump did the whole game to determine his pattern for K's.

He pulls his arm in and clinches his fist, which is what I always thought was the signal for out. I don't think you can see his lips to be able to tell if he yelled "you're out" unfortunately. I know for a fact that HS umps pump their fist for the 3rd strike but do not yell you're out until the play has been made. It's a habit when a strike is called.

Doesn't an ump yell you're out? Like was brought up earlier, the customary thing on a swing and miss for strike three is to assume that the person is out, but if the umpire yells that the ball hit the ground, then it's to be played out. But he doesn't have to yell it hit the ground according to what another poster has said.

Regardless of whether or not he saw the signal he was called out by the umpire. If the Angels actually heard "You're out" then they have a 100% legit beef. If they assumed they heard it then we have a problem. I'm curious on what Paul heard.

Regardless of whether or not he saw the signal he was called out by the umpire. Is that what the replay said? I saw AJP run while the ump was signaling the out. Also, as I've asked the others....did he really CALL him out?

Indecision yes, but the fact remains the same that he DID call him out. I think he called it a strike but did not say out loud he was out. But he motioned with his fist that he was out. Eddings said nothing, because he wanted to see what the players would do...way to control the field of play, ump. :roll: I agree that is the wrong thing to do. It also proves my point that there was a possibility of it not being an out and AJP took advantage while Paul assumed the other. Also, that explaination doesn't make sense because half of the players involved believed it to be an out so since Paul didn't throw the ball to first and rolled the ball to the mound I dont see how that explaination can be right. There is no possibility that AJP wasn't out. Eddings fist took care of any doubts on that. Doesn't an ump yell you're out?

In all the games you played when you could run on a 3rd strike what did the ump do? He usually pumps that arm for the 3rd strike but often doesn't call it an out until the play is over. Look at tapes of umps when this happens...look at the earlier AB when it happened. I think the most obvious thing to give away the umps mistake was his reaction to AJ running. He momentarily freaked out. His body almost spasmed as he tried to figure out what was happening. Umps know the game, when they know the call they've made they react appropriately. When a guy slides to home, isn't tagged but misses the plate, the ump is rather obvious in the way he isn't indicating out or safe. This ump looked completely confused that AJ was going to first, almost as if he felt like he might have missed a drop ball that only AJ saw. True but AJP didn't run right away until he saw the delay as he was turned around and heading back to the bench. That happened before AJP took off and caused AJP to think the ball hit the ground.

Indecision yes, but the fact remains the same that he DID call him out. I think he called it a strike but did not say out loud he was out. But he motioned with his fist that he was out. Eddings said nothing, because he wanted to see what the players would do...way to control the field of play, ump. :roll: I agree that is the wrong thing to do. It also proves my point that there was a possibility of it not being an out and AJP took advantage while Paul assumed the other. Also, that explaination doesn't make sense because half of the players involved believed it to be an out so since Paul didn't throw the ball to first and rolled the ball to the mound I dont see how that explaination can be right.

:-s Yes. The umps all have Eddings back. :roll: Did Paul hear him say that AJP was out? If so then the ump is lying but if he didn't then there is the gray area.

Indecision yes, but the fact remains the same that he DID call him out. I think he called it a strike but did not say out loud he was out.

In all the games you played when you could run on a 3rd strike what did the ump do? He usually pumps that arm for the 3rd strike but often doesn't call it an out until the play is over. Look at tapes of umps when this happens...look at the earlier AB when it happened.

Watch the video. He doesn't throw the ball on the field until the umpire is clinching his fist giving the out signal. But he's not looking at the ump either. If the ump is also yelling "You're out" then I can see the arguement 100% for the Angels.

And he didn't punch AJP right away either. This indecision led to this mess.

Is that a MLB rule for the ump to yell that? Also, what compelled AJP to run? AJP is a catcher and he knows the rules and he ran while Paul thought otherwise. Yeah, I want to know if it's REQUIRED for the ump to yell that. If it's not it should be, and the 1st and 3rd base umps also need to chime in immediately if they see a dropped ball. It would actually be a good idea to have the line umps approve all strikeouts to avoid uncertainty. It isn't required. It's not required at the HS level either.