CuseCubFan69

And are you supposed to blame a guy for being brittle? You asked why people defend Prior for the injuries. Being injured is not something you should have to defend a guy from. It's not a choice by the player, except for those situations when injuries are the result of stupid motorcycle, skydiving, shirt ironing, wall punching, etc. The fact that he finished up 2003 pitching with a sore calf (which likely led into the achilles issues the next spring), stayed in the game after falling hard on his shoulder, came back from a broken elbow and is pitching right now at what is obviously not 100% puts an awful lot of holes in the assertion that Prior might be one of those guys who won't tempt fate in any way. Are you saying some players aren't injury prone? I'm saying I think it's absurd to "blame" players for their injuries. I think you're wrong. I've talked to many professional baseball trainers and many players have horrible workout habits or none at all. ARam has bad tendons, shouldn't he stretch them more than any other player or is it just bad luck when he hurts them again? Wood has bad mechanics and possibly very bad work habits is it ok for him not to do anything and if he doesn't we shouldn't blame him for what happens?

Freshman year (Vanderbilt): 82.1 Sophomore year (USC): 129 IP Junior year (USC): 138 IP I'm curious on how many pitches he threw each game. Thanks for coming out with those numbers Raisin. How'd he do against UCLA?

And are you supposed to blame a guy for being brittle? You asked why people defend Prior for the injuries. Being injured is not something you should have to defend a guy from. It's not a choice by the player, except for those situations when injuries are the result of stupid motorcycle, skydiving, shirt ironing, wall punching, etc. The fact that he finished up 2003 pitching with a sore calf (which likely led into the achilles issues the next spring), stayed in the game after falling hard on his shoulder, came back from a broken elbow and is pitching right now at what is obviously not 100% puts an awful lot of holes in the assertion that Prior might be one of those guys who won't tempt fate in any way. Are you saying some players aren't injury prone?

Italy vs France....Go Italy!!!

I hope they did some self-evaluation, anytime a player that didn't work out and yet finds success elsewhere is reason enough to re-examine what was done and what could've been done differently as a situation like what happened to Corey might happen again. I don't know how they tried to change Corey's approach so I'm unclear the impact it had on him. The best way to move on is to not let it happen again. But the excuses worry me. Do they really think that "dems da breaks" or can they really re-examine themselves? Do they just have one train of thought and no matter what think that's the direction to go? Can Hendry adapt and really learn the game and how to be a successful GM or is he happy with what he already knows and that's it?

I said at the time he was hired that he'd drive at least 1, and probably 2 of the big 3 into the ground. I just didn't know which ones. I defend Prior and not Baker because Baker is an old man who has been around the game and should know better, and all he has to do is think. Prior not only has to think, but perform an extremely difficult physical task that ultimately injures just about everybody that attempts to perform the task. Furthermore, what else can you do but defend a guy for injuries? What is the other option, blaming him? Irrationally accusing him of faking it? Well I suppose when you look at Drew (LA) you have to wonder is it just freak accidents or is he brittle. So far in LA he's been fine so maybe the feak accidents is the answer. Maybe that's what is going on with Prior along with Baker driving him/pitchers too hard. Some players won't tempt fate in any way if they are hurt in the slightest form. Is Prior one of those guys? I'd like to see him pitch a couple of years injury free and show us. A lot of managers over pitch starters and Baker isn't the only one guilty of that. Mckeon did it at Florida and Leyland is suppose to be another one. IMO a lot of these guys get over pitched in HS and in college and that may have started a slide too that Baker may be the one that pushes them over the edge. How many innings/pitches did Prior thow at USC? What did he average per game?

honestly I'd only trade him if ALL three off those come back. You'd have to wait until they all join the Yankees. :P :D Imagine that? Put Jeter at second and that infield would be one of the All time best.

Would I? I'm up for trading just about anybody from this organization, and Barrett is not free from that list. If they could get a good young catcher, and they had a manager who could deal with having a young catcher, I'd be all for it. Who do you want for manager? Is there a place to look and see what types of guys are available and what they believe/theories are? I want a catcher that get it to second in 1.5 and hit 330/440. Is that too much to ask?

fits right in w/ the organization's "it's out of our hands" mystical, karma-fueled, bad break-ridden excuse factory. Well I wonder how many bad hop singles Corey has in Baltimore so far? These guys have to take some responsibility for this mess and I'm really sick of these lame excuses.

So Prior never had to adapt to anything in 2002 or 2003, or late last year when he came back from a broken elbow and had very good results? He had nothing but the perfect situation laid out in front of him? He's had some of the worst coaching possible and one of the worst offenses in the game ever since he became a Cub, not to mention some god awful defense behind him and incredibly inconsist relievers. And all this between 21-25, when you're supposed to be learning the game from all those tough guys that made it through the rigors of many a season before you, except his veteran teammates were largely inept bums who had to have a kid carry them if anything good was going to happen. Good point about his teammates and coaching staff. I never expected Prior to carry this team...never. I wanted him to pitch quality innings and for Baker to not over use/abuse him. I saw him as a 2/3 type guy and it would be a bonus if he was an ace. At this point in his career he should be able to tell us what he is but the injuries have skewed that for us. Why the injuries? Why do people defend him so much about the injuries but yet have no problem saying Baker has had his chance while he hasn't had a healthy team? Can you split it like that or is it bacuse Baker has helped make Wood/Prior what they are...injured pitchers always on the mend?

When I wrote computer I was thinking about how different players react to differnt situations. Not that clutch stuff but when failure happens. On computer games you don't have that feature but with humans you do, that's what I meant. Domination is a wonderful thing to have in a pitcher and Prior has that potential to do it again, you're right. It's just the 4 run by the second inning games that he gives up that I want to see him continue to his 90 or so pitches the pen has a shot. Just do me a favor and when he does have the bad couple of early innings or is getting hit hard in the 5th, just look at him and see if his face changes, his mannerisms. He's young so maybe he'll learn not to show those as much but I've looked and a different person when he struggles. It's not always mechanics that break down and finding these signs is something I've had to look for all my career. I like the kid and I wish him well but I feel what I feel. Is it an assumption or an educated guess?

I don't see why he has to prove you wrong. The vast majority of these guys cruised through their younger years and faced little to no adversity. I don't get why you think you can use that as evidence against Prior's manliness. You're right they have cruised and the difference between the super stars and the potential guys are the ones that fail and fight/learn while the potential guys just do what they've always done and don't adapt. Why Prior? I think he has to have the perfect situation before he goes out and can't go out if it isn't. Baker has screwed this up and I agree with you that he hasn't helped and maybe I'm reading this wrong because of that.

I think it's more important for you to prove yourself right when throwing out wild accusations like that. He battled pretty hard in 2003, and my guess is you'll try to hang it all on that very poorly managed playoff game as a justification for your claims, even though he was so poorly abused going into that game, battling like very few 23 year olds have ever had to battle. Yes the game was poorly managed I agree. I look at his mechanics breaking down when teams hit him. They change as do his mannerisms.

The fact that he might have 2-3 years left as a solid hitting C is exactly why it would be selling high. Barrett isn't the biggest problem with the team, but neither is Jones, and I'd be happy as heck if Jacque was dealt. Not being the biggest problem isn't a good enough reason to not trade a guy. When you trade your big problems you are trading low and getting very little back in return. What if the Cubs could aquire a very good young catcher along with another top prospect? Would you still make the deal?

Guzman to AAA is the correct call here. He needs innings, which he was not getting here. I wonder if Baker is fired if Guzman will go back up. Hendry can't tell him to pitch him and it was Bakers choice not to pitch him.

I don't think he is a good choice to manage in the NL as he would be in the AL. I prefer Hendry to go in another direction but I really think he's going to go to the gruffy in your face type manager after Dusty's country club atmosphere. Also, Guillen is a flamboyant type in your face guy so since they won the Series in 2005 Hendry will probably want a type like that. Piniella would be the perfect choice if that's the criteria. Get ready for top picks in 2007 and 2008.

I think some can but what I don't like about Prior is when he struggles he doesn't seem (yeah IMO) to be able to fight out of it. He's had a lot of success and can't deal with failure when he face's it. He's freaking fighting his way out of some rather screwed up injury issues, as well as having to deal with the ineptitude of Dusty Baker throughout his major league career. This all seems like more of the "he's not man enough" rubbish that everybody falls back on when explaining why things aren't so fine and dandy right now. I agree. How many ace pitchers have had the weight of a franchise thrust onto their shoulders and came out the better for it? As a 25 year old, I'm sure there's more than enough pressure on him, without having to battle back from consistent and random injuries. It's almost like some fans (and Dusty) think that he's supposed to pitch a perfect game every time out there. Agreed. I get really sick of these stupid "insights" into players personality that everyone seems to have. Instead of realizing that he's been hurt every single year he's been in the majors and thinking about the effect that just the missed time will have on a player (not to mention the actual injury and rehab, etc), let's blame him for not being man enough. Michael Barret is stupid, Corey Patterson is uncoachable, Wood and Prior aren't tough enough, whatever the excuse of the day is. Things are bad enough now without coming up with stupid and pointless comments about a players mental toughness, or physical toughness or whatever it is these days. Maybe we can all play the games on computer and you could be right. Until then humans play them. Priors got plenty of time to prove me wrong and as I said earlier I hope he does.

I think some can but what I don't like about Prior is when he struggles he doesn't seem (yeah IMO) to be able to fight out of it. He's had a lot of success and can't deal with failure when he face's it. He's freaking fighting his way out of some rather screwed up injury issues, as well as having to deal with the ineptitude of Dusty Baker throughout his major league career. This all seems like more of the "he's not man enough" rubbish that everybody falls back on when explaining why things aren't so fine and dandy right now. Absolutely no. I thought this from the beginning when he was the wonder boy gooney. I agree that he is fighting his way through some injuries but that has little to do with what I'm saying. I look at a pitcher (this is where you and I disagree big time) and I see something missing when he's getting hit. He isn't used to it and IMO he does not know how to deal with it. Will he learn? Possibly. I just don't think he has what it takes to step up and fight through a bad game. This all sounds just like the Corey Patterson isn't coachable or Kerry Wood doesn't care stuff to me. Quite different but I understand your pessimissum. I've coached many different kids and they are all so different much like these guys are. I thought Patterson was an intervert and a nice kid. I think Wood has a big heart but stubburn. I think Prior has had a lot of success and is used to cruising and when he isn't he can't get past it. It's my opinion and I've felt it since 2003 and I've wrote it since then. When you get into a players head, no they are not robots, you can change their approach and IMO you can do that with Prior. I may be wrong but I feel this way and I would love to be proved wrong. Granted, you have to hit the kid first which isn't easy but when it's done he just doesn't have that extra fight in him.

I haven't. I just look to see when a player is facing failure and how they deal with it. He's a kid but he's also been in the league since 2003 so he's not a baby anymore either.

I think some can but what I don't like about Prior is when he struggles he doesn't seem (yeah IMO) to be able to fight out of it. He's had a lot of success and can't deal with failure when he face's it. He's freaking fighting his way out of some rather screwed up injury issues, as well as having to deal with the ineptitude of Dusty Baker throughout his major league career. This all seems like more of the "he's not man enough" rubbish that everybody falls back on when explaining why things aren't so fine and dandy right now. Absolutely no. I thought this from the beginning when he was the wonder boy gooney. I agree that he is fighting his way through some injuries but that has little to do with what I'm saying. I look at a pitcher (this is where you and I disagree big time) and I see something missing when he's getting hit. He isn't used to it and IMO he does not know how to deal with it. Will he learn? Possibly. I just don't think he has what it takes to step up and fight through a bad game.

France kicks a penalty kick in and it's a goal!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think that may depend on how well the Cubs are doing and what direction they are going in. If they continue to stink I can't imagine a competitor like Z wanting to stay.

IMO Hendry might not be thrilled with Barrett because he couldn't throw me out if I was attempting to steal second. I like Barrett but if it makes the Cubs a better team if he is moved than I'm for it as I am on any player on the Cubs roster.

I think some can but what I don't like about Prior is when he struggles he doesn't seem (yeah IMO) to be able to fight out of it. He's had a lot of success and can't deal with failure when he face's it.

The Tigers are winning with a pitching staff that is what the Cubs staff was supposed to be post 2003, and with guys who murder the ball and get on base. Having Leyland demand "guts" and "heart" means nothing. Going into this season, IIRC he had a sub .500 winning percentage. With teams that got rid of all their players. I don't think you can make a blanket statement like his record until you look at what he had to deal with. He won when he had players and when he lost the two teams Pitt and Florida had fire sales.