CuseCubFan69

I'm gonna disagree in turn. Stats don't threaten anybody's enjoyment of the game. If people don't want to know about them, they don't have to; they can choose not to pay them any mind. Introducing them, however, certainly adds to the enjoyment of many, as it broadens the overall scope of baseball as a whole, thus attracting more people and appealling to a wider spectrum of types of enjoyment. this reminds me of a quote from "The Secret Game of Baseball". "You don't need to look at stats to enjoy baseball, but you need them to understand baseball." for fans who simply want to enjoy the game, stats don't mean much, and i wouldn't begrudge them that. but i don't want those fans to come back from a game and try to debate with me based on what their eyes told them on that particular day. even if said fans want to go to every single game and never miss a single monent of baseball, you can still learn more about the game from statistics. the human tendency, from an observer's perspective, is to make the game more dramatic than it is--to pay attention to the meaningless details as if they're of the utmost importance. if someone makes a baserunning error once, they must do it all the time. if someone scores a runner from third on a bunt one time, it must be effective all of the time, no matter how many times the observer witnesses the opposite. Meaningless details? I disagree that the game has those. I love the little nuances that the game brings that numbers do not even come close to seeing.

Frankly I find that to be a baseless assertion. Not only baseless, but a big reason that the "casual fan" can't/won't embrace new metrics is articles like this from journalists like Chass that deride and mock the metrics, rather than simply integrating them into conversation. I think it might help if the metrics are explained and not just thrown out there to overwhelm the viewer. If you just throw out the term VORP and assume everyone knows what it is isn't the best way to go about it IMO. That's my point. No attempt has been made to expose the general fan to these metrics other than to mock them at every opportunity. Think about the beat writers and show hosts in this city. Only Bruce Miles talks about advanced metrics, and I can't think of any radio hosts in the city that consistently bring up metrics like VORP. No wonder people can't embrace them and feel that they "ruin" the game. They have no idea what they are because the media doesn't properly educate people about them. I think it's because a lot of them are uneducated about the subject themselves. Plus, if they start to use numbers like this it opens up a new genre if you will of an area that they won't have any pull. Their strength over you and I is their contact with the players/management but if numbers are thrown in there that evens out the playing field and the nerds have a chance to take over the industry. I've said this before and I'll say it again, I just do not understand why people that do this for a career just do not try to improve and educate themselves as much as possible. This is where I give Bruce credit. heck, they don't have to pretend to know everything but to out and out refuse something like this is just plain ignorance or lazy to the nth degree.

I think that it's possible that Murton might go to RF and Floyd will stay at LF against leftys if Floyd continues to hit well against them. I just don't have a lot of faith in Floyd remaining healthy but if he does and is productive it's a win-win situation for the Cubs. As I said for the pitchers, I want Lou to have hard decisions because guys are doing well a heck of a lot more than the other way around. Maybe I'm eisegeting, but I'm getting the idea that if Soriano can handle CF, Jones becomes the 4th. He'd be a heck of a 4th guy but I'd have to assume he'd also be an expensive and unhappy one too.

Frankly I find that to be a baseless assertion. Not only baseless, but a big reason that the "casual fan" can't/won't embrace new metrics is articles like this from journalists like Chass that deride and mock the metrics, rather than simply integrating them into conversation. I think it might help if the metrics are explained and not just thrown out there to overwhelm the viewer. If you just throw out the term VORP and assume everyone knows what it is isn't the best way to go about it IMO.

I think there is a difference in getting hit and pitching inside. I think a lot of these HBP's are just retaliation thus the bump up in the numbers. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm curious on what the number of multiple HBP's are compared to a single case.

That was Barrett talking about Lilly. Lilly started in Montreal, and Barrett was the catcher then in 1999 when Lilly came up. Lilly pitched 24 innings there, and was gone to the Yankees the next year. Lilly truly is a journeyman pitcher. He was drafted and signed by the Dodgers, then traded to the Expos while still a prospect. He was traded again as a PTBNL to the Yankees. Then he was sent to Oakland, and finally Toronto. The Cubs are his 6th organization. I didn't realize that, thanks guys.

Thanks everyone. I hope that Colvin has a good year and that other players see this and do the same.

Who knew Lilly had a sinker? It would be great if Barrett/Blanco convince Lilly to use it more often! When was Lilly in Montreal? I assume Lou meant Toronto. I have to assume that Lou knows that using this type of strategy/plan for hitting helps his offense too.

I think that it's possible that Murton might go to RF and Floyd will stay at LF against leftys if Floyd continues to hit well against them. I just don't have a lot of faith in Floyd remaining healthy but if he does and is productive it's a win-win situation for the Cubs. As I said for the pitchers, I want Lou to have hard decisions because guys are doing well a heck of a lot more than the other way around.

The Cards are now said to be in the running for Clemens, or at least interested.

If Livingston went to college would he still be able to finish and get his degree for free? Imagine if this happened in college and all the money he would have missed out on. It's just a guess but I'm sure he has and will make more money in the NBA to more than pay for a college tuition due to this one contract.

This lobbyist thing just drives me nuts. Maybe it's time for Cub fans to pool up and send a guy out there to lobby for Santo...whine and dine them, bring them to Vegas with Pacman and tell them how great they are.

Calvin Johnson seems to be the talk of the combine. I've always liked this kid and he seems to be one of the hardest WR's to cover out there along with a lot of other good qualities. Does anyone know if he publicly critisized that horrible QB of his at GTech? If he didn't, I'd take this kid #1 because I just don't see a flaw.

I think it's a good idea to do something like this. Sometimes we take ourselves or jobs a little too seriously and it's nice to change the pace a little bit. Now that you've had this time to do this....get back in there and get us some info!!!! :D

Mine is that RynoRules will make his 5000th post this year.

I was just watching Mike & Mike and I didn't realize that Marvin Miller didn't get in either. Here's a guy that gave these players a chance to make a lot of money and is IMO one of the most influential people in baseball history.

Nah....it will be either NY Giants (unfortunately, I could see the Giants offering him what he wants) or the Redskins. Maybe he can work out a Clemens like deal and show up around 1/4th of the way into the season and only on gameday on Sunday.

It also includes HS coaches, college players and even more.

And undefeated too!

I don't understand why anyone that's involved in the game doesn't want to continue learning more about the game they love. I enjoy reading the numbers that are put out here. Do I think they they are the end all and answer, no. Do I think they help evaluate and make the game more interesting, heck yes. Hey, I hate fantasy baseball but I have no problem with people enjoying the game and if that's one of the ways they have fun that's great. I enjoy the traditionalist view to the VORPites and I think there is value in those and everything in-between.

Or 5 new guys get induced in the next vote! It seems to me these guys like to feel they are in an inclusive club and the fewer in that club the better it makes them look. Unfortunately, with the 75 percent rule, it's going to take more than 5 new people. If none of the existing committee changes their vote and votes for him, Santo would need the next 18 newly elected members to vote for him. I see.

Or 5 new guys get induced in the next vote! It seems to me these guys like to feel they are in an inclusive club and the fewer in that club the better it makes them look.

Wow....very upsetting. :cry:

Honestly if these 2 guys are ready it will a very very nice addition to this team. Imagine the decision Lou is going to have to make when it comes to trimming these guys down to 25?

Good luck Ronny!