vance_the_cubs_fan

It's a good deal. He's still a bargain at that price. I doubt the Cubs attempt to lock him up long term until next offseason.

It looks like the Angels are offering Weaver a one year deal for around 9 million. Link.

Krivsky has already begun shaking things up, firing assistant GM Brad Kullman today. Link. While no one really knows what this means, I think it is an indication that Krivsky is planning on shaking things up.

Berryhill did some catching in 1989 along with Girardi and Rick Wrona. McClendon played everywhere. It appears that Wrona and Girardi split time starting there in the playoffs. Berryhill played 91 games in 1989, but if I remember correctly, he got hurt and Wrona was called up. Girardi played 59 games and Wrona played 38. Retrosheet has Wrona and Girardi playing in the playoffs.

I have thought that both sides of this issue have good reasons to support their opinion for months now. I waver back and forth on whether I would be willing to give up on Pie before knowing more about his likelihood of fulfilling on his potential. But I still think that Pie's ability to play CF and play it incredibly well, his arm and his speed on the basepaths are going unacknowledged in this thread. These are abilities that he possesses now. We don't have to wonder if he will be able to do them at the major league level. The base running still needs some refinement, but his defense, by all accounts is there now. He is already better than Dunn at that and is able to do it at near gold glove levels in a much more impactful position (CF) than Dunn's (LF). I don't think that big difference in their games is being taken into account when you are making your argument. I understand that Pie likely will be very good defensively, but if he can't hit major league pitching, that just makes him Tom Goodwin or Corey Patterson. Pie could be very good, even great, and I hold out hope he will do this, but if trading him now nets Dunn, I'd do that deal any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

And for those who think Cuban can't put together a successful team, the Mavs have won 12 in a row and now have the second best record in the NBA this season.

The two teams are completely comparable. Both play in small old ballparks. Both have a huge waiting list for tickets. Both have an enormous demand for tickets. The Red Sox ticket prices are nearly double the Cubs, so right now the Cubs still are a bargain compared to them. The Cubs payroll was among the top third in the league. As much as you try to spin it, the Tribune has put the resources out there. The Cubs are more victims of inept management than they are of some giant corporate scheme to rip off the fans. And don't tell me what to do. And I don't think "Everyone" knows any of the crap you're spewing. You're wonderful attempts of hyperbole are nice, but not accurate. And I don't really care if you are listening and I think with your wonderful use of hyperbole, it is you who looks quite ridiculous.

I doubt I watch any. I might catch some highlights along the way.

That wasn't what I implied at all. In the context of the discussion, I was implying, well not so much more like directly stating, that 900 OPS+ OFers are rare and hard to acquire. I was thowing out the caveat that we could have had Giles, but passed. That wasn't any more than saying we didn't make an effort to get him, which is true. Whether that effort would have netted him, means little in the argument I was making. so, in my opinion, the issue of Giles is of little importance. The fact he may have intended to return to SD all along further emphasizes that you go balls to the wall to get one of these guys when they become available. Therefore....if it costs Pie, Guzman or Marmol, and Marshall or Gallagher to get Dunn, you swallow hard and pay the piper, because getting a 900+ OPS OF is hard to do, especially one on the right side of 27.

I've been saying all along that I thought Dusty would play Walker at 2b if he were still on the team. Let's hope that happens.

and my statement of such wasn't meant to be an indictment on Cubs management, but was simply done to show hoe rare and difficult it is to acquire an impact hitter. By saying we could've had Giles, I was more making a concession that there was one hitter in that class that we could have acquired, but for the most part they are unavailable most of the time.

I'm not all that upset about the restaurant either being used a s uite on game days either. Given how other ballparks have done with those, that seems about normal. It appears that it may be functioning as a restaurant on non-game days and maybe even before and after games anyways.

It's comments like this that always leave me scratching my head. You don't know that. Ok...so assume we couldn't have had Giles; that further strenghtens my point that it is very difficult to acquire players with a 900+ OPS who become true difference makers in a line-up. Therefore, when one becomes available, you don't hold the deal up because the other team insists on some "B" graded prospects.

Sickels was very complimentary of Veal as well.

Actually, the premise has nothing to do with the Reds not being able to afford Dunn. It's more to do with the fact that the new Reds GM realizes that the team as constructed cannot compete. They are likely a couple of years away from truly contending. They have a phenomenal offense, but no pitching. Furthermore, they have no true pitching prospects coming up the minor league pipeline. The cupboard is bare. They could keep Dunn, but Dunn has shown little interest in signing a contract beyond his arbitration years. That means, he might not be around when they are able to right the ship. Also, in order to set things right, the team must refill that cupboard. In other words, they have to acquire some pitching that will be around for 5-6 years or so. Dunn is the best chip they have to do that. He alone could bring them 3-4 high ceiling prospects. If they could trade Griffey for another two, then they would be well on their way to re-stocking things.

Why would Pie have to have a career OPS over .900 in order to have a higher ceiling than Dunn? I think Pie's ability to play CF ups his value a lot. If he could have an OPS above .850, have gold glove caliber range and play a shut down defensive CF with a great arm and great speed on the bases, he definitely surpasses Dunn's ceiling. True, but baseball players do more than hit. I agree that production at the plate has more of an impact on a player's ability to help a team win games, but it seems like OPS is the only consideration in this comparison and Pie's other abilities are not being acknowledged. But since we are talking OPS, at age 20, Pie had an OPS over .900 at AA, albeit in an injury shortened sample size. Dunn was in High-A at age 20 and his OPS was 6 points lower in a full season of ABs. I use this comparison not to say that Pie will be a better offensive player, only to show that it is very possible that he could come close. I was a huge proponent of signing Giles myself, but saying that Hendry passed is a bit presumptive. There is a lot more evidence that Giles passed on leaving San Diego. My only purpose in bring up Abreu was to provide an example of a complete player. I wrote in my original post that I would want Abreu at 25 or 26 years old. Could you tell me where I can read up on the composition of stats like runs created and win shares? I need to learn more about them. It most certainly does matter what a prospect's ceiling is. If you are a GM and you are trading for or giving up prospects in a deal, you'd better be evaluating what those player's ceilings are as well as their chances of reaching them. Was 8th round pick Dontrelle Willis considered a can't miss, a-level prospect? What about Lou Brock? I think you are ignoring the possibilities of one or two of these guys fulfilling on their promise. Pie was 20 last year. When Dunn was 20, he hit .281 with an OPS of .897 against High-A pitching. Was he a can't miss prospect? My point is that there are certain players who make an imediate impact on a line-up. Players who consistently put up over 900 OPS are such players. Being able to trade for one of those players is rare. Being able to trade for one who has yet to reach his 27-32 age range peak is even rarer. Will Pie be an all-star caliber player? We don't know. His numbers look good, but he has yet to improve his eye at the plate. Pie has as much of a chance of being Corey Patterson as he does being Kenny Lofton in his prime. With his eye at the plate, it's hard to tell if he will improve that or if his natural talents will overcome it. If he reaches his ceiling, could he be better than Dunn? Maybe. But since Dunn's performance offensively already place him in the upper echelon of outfielders and he is likely still improving, the odds of Pie reaching Dunn's class are slim, as they would be for any prospect, even those rated higher than Pie. Furthermore, for all the low expectation guys like Dontrelle and Lou Brock, there are hundreds of top tier guys that failed. Some of these were players that received much higher grades than Pie. Many more reached the majors, but became nothing more than role players. Surely, Pie may develop into an all-star caliber player. Guzman may solve his injury problems and become a Cy Young candidate. Dopirak may solve his strike zone issues and become a player in the mold of Richie Sexson. On the other hand, these guys may become nothing more than roster fillers or organizational flame-outs. Would I trade such a package for a 32-year old slugger? No. But Dunn is 26, and he is already one of the premier offensive forces in the game. He's proven what he can do. The doubt has been erased. To get him, it's going to cost some high ceiling guys. The Reds have to think the deal is worth the risk. I'm not doubting the ceilings of the guys we're giving up. I'm just doubting the probability that they reach those ceilings.

In an effort to get this thread back on track... Does anyone else think giving up Pie, Dope and two pitchers who could be Williams and Guzman or Marshall is overpaying? Dunn is a great power hitter who hits from the left side and he gets on base a lot, but he isn't Bobby Abreu at age 25. Abreu was/is the complete package that Pie could be. Dunn's OPS is elite, but the rest of his game is average or slightly above average. Is OPS such an all-determining statistic? Pie's ceiling is higher than Dunn's though Dunn is realizing his potential at the moment while Pie is still somewhat of a risk. So Pie for Dunn straight up might be fair if both GMs feel like rolling the dice. Or Dunn for a solid starter like Williams and a top pitching prospect like Hill/Guzman/Marshall would be fair, but not both of those offers combined plus Dopirak. What do the rest of you think? I disagree that Pie's ceiling is higher than Dunn. I doubt Pie becomes a career 900+ OPS. Pie will be a better defender and if he plays CF he has some value because of that being a more demanding position, but I don't really see Pie has having a higher ceiling. There's no way you get Dunn for Pie straight up. One is a proven top of the league offensive performer. The other hasn't proven anything above AA. While OPS may not be an all-determining statistic, it's close when measuring offensive production. If you want a more encompassing offensive stat, try RC. Dunn was 12th in the NL in runs created in 2005. He trailed Lee, Pujols, Bay, Giles, Delgado, Cabrera, Abreu, Kent, Ensberg, Wright, and Burrell. We could have had Giles, but passed. While Abreu may appear to be a more complete player, he is much older than Dunn. Dunn has yet to enter his prime. While Abreu will experience a decline in the coming years, Dunn is likely to get better. Dunn was 10th in the NL in win shares which does take into account all of his contributions. This places him ahead of Abreu. Is Dunn worth a bunch of maybes....yes and it really doesn't matter the ceiling of those maybes. None of that group are can't miss, a-level prospects.[/url]

Because MacPhail also used "competition" as another reason for the expansion. If we can just get these new bleachers, that will help us win. Charge 60 bucks for a bleacher seat, close off the knothole, keep on jacking ticket prices up, scalp your own tickets.....just don't lie about why you're doing it and don't cry poor when free agent time rolls around. If the Cubs would have actually won something in my life, I wouldn't care. It's crap like this that made me say "bon voyage" to Wrigley 4 years ago. And judging from attendance figures, they haven't missed you.

Absloutely nothing. The reason the Red Sox, Yankees, and yes, the Cubs can raise ticket prices is because of the demand. There's 3000 people willing to plop down those prices X81 but can't because that's what the season ticket waiting list is. As long as the Cubs are selling out at greater than 80% capacity, they will continue to raise tickets. It's nothing new. And even if some seats start to be left unsold, they still will raise prices in the areas that they can. For example, the Texas Rangers have some upper deck seats for $6 a game. Those seats are hardly ever filled. They haven't raised those prices. However the seats in the lower bowl areas are raised almost every year. They know the people buying those seats will pay the higher price, so they raise it. The Cubs know that charging an extra 2-5 bucks a seat isn't going to slow down sales. As long as that is the case, they will keep raising the price no matter how many new seats they add. It's smart business and every team in the league would and does the same thing.

The Cubs really are no worse than any other organization. Are we really worse than the Astros who are trying to force their team leader to retire? Are we worse than the Cardinals who after getting a new stadium hasn't raised payroll? Are we worse than the Red Sox who have the highest ticket prices in the majors? Are we worse than the Devil Rays who have yet to put a decent product on the field? I could go on. I'm not saying I agree with everything the Cubs do, but they are no worse in that regard than most sports franchises. This type of behavior goes with the business.

Any package for Dunn is likely to include Pie. You may can substitute Pie with Murton if they want someone with major league experience. But my guess is if they decide to unload Dunn, they'll want Pie. Next will be coming up with the pitchers that they will want. There's a chance the Reds would want to wait until after June to trade Dunn and if that's the case, I can definitely see them asking for Paweleck. If a trade is done sooner, then he's likely not in the deal. They will want Pie and at least two pitchers. The pitchers will likely come from a group of Guzman, Gallagher, Paweleck, Marshall, Ryu, and Marmol. My guess is that we give up Pie, two of those pitchers, and then another fringe player such as Wellemeyer or some one like that. Depending on other circumstances, the Reds could also ask for Dopirak or Harvey back as well. It would be a high cost, and I would no doubt pay it. Having Pierre and Walker hit in front of a Lee-Dunn-Ramirez middle of the order would be potent indeed.

Any package for Dunn is likely to include Pie. You may can substitute Pie with Murton if they want someone with major league experience. But my guess is if they decide to unload Dunn, they'll want Pie. Next will be coming up with the pitchers that they will want. There's a chance the Reds would want to wait until after June to trade Dunn and if that's the case, I can definitely see them asking for Paweleck. If a trade is done sooner, then he's likely not in the deal. They will want Pie and at least two pitchers. The pitchers will likely come from a group of Guzman, Gallagher, Paweleck, Marshall, Ryu, and Marmol. My guess is that we give up Pie, two of those pitchers, and then another fringe player such as Wellemeyer or some one like that. Depending on other circumstances, the Reds could also ask for Dopirak or Harvey back as well. It would be a high cost, and I would no doubt pay it. Having Pierre and Walker hit in front of a Lee-Dunn-Ramirez middle of the order would be potent indeed.

Dunn would be the perfect fit for this team. As it is constructed we need one more bat that would be feared. Dunn ranked 10th among all OF last year in OBP with a 387 OBP. He was seventh among MLB OF in SLG and 3rd in HR. He had a 927 OPS. He's also 26 years old with a career 901 OPS. Do you know how many Cubs had an OPS over 900 last year? Two. Lee and Ramirez. And neither of those two have a 900+ for their career. There could be some argument made that if the Cubs acquired Dunn he would become the biggest offesnsive force on the team. Even greater than Lee and Ramirez. His age and ability make him someone worth sending Pie, Guzman, Dopirak for. What have those guys done? They're all good prospects, but not one has been graded an "A" prospect this year. Pencil in Dunn between Lee and Ramirez and suddenly the offense goes from probably a 7-12 ranked offense to a top 5 offense in the league. Dunn would make that much difference.

I don't have a problem with the Cubs raising ticket prices. It's simple supply and demand. When the demand drops, the Cubs may adjust the prices accordingly. When you have a 3000 name waiting list for season tickets, you can charge whatever you want for them. People are likely to pay. Cubs prices still pale in comparison to Red Sox ticket prices. When I went to Fenway, I had to pay $75 for a infield roof seat.

I can't really understand the outrage either. If you think the price is high for Cubs tickets (and of course it is) check out the prices at Fenway. It's supply and demand that drives the prices up. The bleacher seats are so high because they've become the prime place to watch a game. As I stated before, if the Cubs didn't cover up the "knothole" it would become a logistical nightmare on some games, especially prime game dates.