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I asked Churchill abut what pitchers the Cubs might be after and he mentioned Sheets' name- so i asked him where he heard that

Arguing that Gathright is better than those guys mentioned is a pretty perfect example of how flawed defensive metrics are seriously, it's joey gathright. good lord thats a pretty convincing argument you shouldn't even have to argue something like that. it's like arguing that pujols is better than juan pierre. whats the point

lol, so being intereted in hermida is not a link to him? okay dude. the fact that you said "not even remotely" makes you look even worse anyways, if that's what you're going with, then why did you comment to that guy in the first place? he was talking about guys the cubs have been rumored to be interested in. he never said "guys that the cus called and tried to work something out for" no im not acting petty, you're just being ridiculous and backtracking all over the place. whatever. you're right dude. i'm sure by "linked to hermida" you meant "hendry actually called and tried to work something out for him" and that in reality hendry never even called. good job.

i can't wait until they try to get chase headley for him next offseason

Arguing that Gathright is better than those guys mentioned is a pretty perfect example of how flawed defensive metrics are seriously, it's joey gathright. good lord

All you have to do is google "cubs hermida" dude http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8793068/ChiSox-GM-is-up-to-something-...-but-what??CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49 http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2008/11/08/2008-11-08_with_superfan_barack_obama_leading_cheer.html?page=2 http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081203&content_id=3700331&vkey=news_fla&fext=.jsp&c_id=fla http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=3754869&type=blogEntry http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/1319247,CST-SPT-cub08.article Like I said earlier, I haven't seen anything saying Hendry has contacted them about Hermida. It was widely reported that he was on their radar earlier in the month, but Florida wanted waaay too much from another team that asked and scared most of the others off. I hadn't seen the ESPN link you posted, that's the only link of those five that says they actually did contact them. There's a difference between having someone on a list, and actually pursuing that guy. Just googling "Hermida Cubs" isn't going to find that dude. haha, seriously? if multiple places are reporting that they've expressed interest, then it's pretty obvious that hendry has probably contacted them. plus like you said, that espn link said it. what more do you want? admit you were wrong and move on. I said I hadn't seen the link on ESPN before, what more do you want? It was well reported they were interested in him, but Florida asked for a royal haul from another team that did formally inquire, so I assumed that Hendry had no intentions of following through on that interest as a result. Coincidentally, reports of their interest dropped off after that as well. Other than that one obscure blog link within ESPN, it hadn't been reported anywhere else that they actually had talks about him. That one obscure ESPN page could be mistaken since it's not corroborated. Or if it is corroborated, sorry for not taking the time to read a thousand pages throughout the net with the earlier reported interest. Are you one of those guys that actually gets a stiffy from saying "told you so," and are you getting pissed because I'm depriving you of that? Because that's what you're acting like. you say that the cubs haven't been rumored to be interested in hermida and the only people who have mentioned him are people on this board, then when i give you multiple examples it's "oh, well that doesn't mean hendry has talked to the marlins about him. that's what i meant." come on. so what you're saying it's that multiple places confirm that the cubs are/were interested, but hendry never even called them to ask about him? him. i guess hendry just had a crush on him but was too afraid to call and ask. I never said they hadn't been rumored to be interested in him. I said they hadn't been directly linked to him. If you need me to spell it out, they hadn't been linked to any trade talks with the Marlins. Second, no, it's reasonable to think Hendry never did call and ask. And it has nothing to do with him being "too afraid to call and ask." Hendry wasn't working on anything else while the Peavy deal was pending, since he didn't know what he might be left to work with. It would have been a waste of time to even go down that road. Did you totally miss all of the stories that were flying around about Peavy and what Hendry was doing during the meetings? Florida's demands were exposed as uber-extreme before the Peavy deal was shelved, so no, I would have expected that he never did talk to them. Is it really worth starting a pissing match and dragging down the thread because you couldn't figure that out for yourself? Why don't you try to figure out what it is that people mean before blowing up over something that was an ancillary point at best in an earlier post? Criminey man, just stop already. Here are the posts that prompted your orginial Hermida comment then and you replied The guy was talking about players who the Cubs have rumored to be interested in this offseason and you said that. I just gave you 5 articles that linked the Cubs to Hermida.

Now they're playing a special on the 05 White Sox World Series run. :(

All you have to do is google "cubs hermida" dude http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8793068/ChiSox-GM-is-up-to-something-...-but-what??CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49 http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2008/11/08/2008-11-08_with_superfan_barack_obama_leading_cheer.html?page=2 http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081203&content_id=3700331&vkey=news_fla&fext=.jsp&c_id=fla http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=3754869&type=blogEntry http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/1319247,CST-SPT-cub08.article Like I said earlier, I haven't seen anything saying Hendry has contacted them about Hermida. It was widely reported that he was on their radar earlier in the month, but Florida wanted waaay too much from another team that asked and scared most of the others off. I hadn't seen the ESPN link you posted, that's the only link of those five that says they actually did contact them. There's a difference between having someone on a list, and actually pursuing that guy. Just googling "Hermida Cubs" isn't going to find that dude. haha, seriously? if multiple places are reporting that they've expressed interest, then it's pretty obvious that hendry has probably contacted them. plus like you said, that espn link said it. what more do you want? admit you were wrong and move on. I said I hadn't seen the link on ESPN before, what more do you want? It was well reported they were interested in him, but Florida asked for a royal haul from another team that did formally inquire, so I assumed that Hendry had no intentions of following through on that interest as a result. Coincidentally, reports of their interest dropped off after that as well. Other than that one obscure blog link within ESPN, it hadn't been reported anywhere else that they actually had talks about him. That one obscure ESPN page could be mistaken since it's not corroborated. Or if it is corroborated, sorry for not taking the time to read a thousand pages throughout the net with the earlier reported interest. Are you one of those guys that actually gets a stiffy from saying "told you so," and are you getting pissed because I'm depriving you of that? Because that's what you're acting like. you say that the cubs haven't been rumored to be interested in hermida and the only people who have mentioned him are people on this board, then when i give you multiple examples it's "oh, well that doesn't mean hendry has talked to the marlins about him. that's what i meant." come on. so what you're saying it's that multiple places confirm that the cubs are/were interested, but hendry never even called them to ask about him? him. i guess hendry just had a crush on him but was too afraid to call and ask.

All you have to do is google "cubs hermida" dude http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8793068/ChiSox-GM-is-up-to-something-...-but-what??CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49 http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2008/11/08/2008-11-08_with_superfan_barack_obama_leading_cheer.html?page=2 http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081203&content_id=3700331&vkey=news_fla&fext=.jsp&c_id=fla http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=3754869&type=blogEntry http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/1319247,CST-SPT-cub08.article Like I said earlier, I haven't seen anything saying Hendry has contacted them about Hermida. It was widely reported that he was on their radar earlier in the month, but Florida wanted waaay too much from another team that asked and scared most of the others off. I hadn't seen the ESPN link you posted, that's the only link of those five that says they actually did contact them. There's a difference between having someone on a list, and actually pursuing that guy. Just googling "Hermida Cubs" isn't going to find that dude. haha, seriously? if multiple places are reporting that they've expressed interest, then it's pretty obvious that hendry has probably contacted them. plus like you said, that espn link said it. what more do you want? admit you were wrong and move on.

weird move. what about yunel?/

All you have to do is google "cubs hermida" dude http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8793068/ChiSox-GM-is-up-to-something-...-but-what??CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49 http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2008/11/08/2008-11-08_with_superfan_barack_obama_leading_cheer.html?page=2 http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081203&content_id=3700331&vkey=news_fla&fext=.jsp&c_id=fla http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=3754869&type=blogEntry http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/1319247,CST-SPT-cub08.article

Really? Because of the four offseason RF targets the Cubs had going into the winter meetings, Gathright is better than 2-3 of them (depending on how many games you think Bradley will last in the outfield). And that's BEFORE you take contract value into account. If we're considering those targets to be Ibanez, Hermida, Abreu, and Bradley, than there's no argument to be made that Gathright is even close to as good as any of them. Why is this comparison even being made? There's zero rumors floating out there even remotely linking us to Hermida. Ibanez is a Philly. Abreu and Bradley are being looked at as replacements to Kosuke in RF so he can platoon in LF. No one ever advocated Gathright as a substitute to Abreu and Bradley. He signed a minor league contract for crying out loud. If Pie gets traded, then Gathright basically replaces him as "organizational depth." Uh, that guy made the comparison? I was just responding to exactly what he said. And we have definitely been linked to Hermida. Badly written post on my part after going back and rereading it. My intent was to reinforce your said, not counter your post. As far as the Hermida link, I've seen it nothing outside of posters here saying they'd love him and one or two local writers suggesting we should go after him. I haven't seen anything saying Hendry contacted them about Hermida. They've definitely been linked to him

Really? Because of the four offseason RF targets the Cubs had going into the winter meetings, Gathright is better than 2-3 of them (depending on how many games you think Bradley will last in the outfield). And that's BEFORE you take contract value into account. If we're considering those targets to be Ibanez, Hermida, Abreu, and Bradley, than there's no argument to be made that Gathright is even close to as good as any of them. Why is this comparison even being made? There's zero rumors floating out there even remotely linking us to Hermida. Ibanez is a Philly. Abreu and Bradley are being looked at as replacements to Kosuke in RF so he can platoon in LF. No one ever advocated Gathright as a substitute to Abreu and Bradley. He signed a minor league contract for crying out loud. If Pie gets traded, then Gathright basically replaces him as "organizational depth." did you even read the series of posts you're replying to? doesn't sound like it.

Really? Because of the four offseason RF targets the Cubs had going into the winter meetings, Gathright is better than 2-3 of them (depending on how many games you think Bradley will last in the outfield). And that's BEFORE you take contract value into account. wait, are you being serious right now?

I just noticed MLB Network has already been added to my cable. It's not the entire thing hough, it says "MLB Network got full time on January 1" or something like that right. Right now they're playing something got "Baseball's Epic Moments" and it's just a bunch of hightlights with dramatic music in the background.

Well, then I guess I'll go with Morneau cause he's lucky then. In 940 career PA (just so you don't argue sample size), Morneau has had 2.5 PA per RBI with RISP. Dunn in 1322 PA has 3.4 PA per RBI with RISP. You call it luck, I call it Morneau putting more of an emphasis on putting the ball in play to try and score a runner. Either way, I still say that it's a reason why Morneau is a better hitter. Okay, but what about RBI per PA withOUT runners scoring position? If you're going to post the RISP RBI numbers, thrn you have to post the other ones too. Otherwise you're just cherrypicking stats. Of course Morneau hits better with RISP than Dunn- he hits for better average than Dunn. That's to be expected. I've already mentioned this, but I'll do it again. They get their RBIs in different ways. Morneau gets his by hitting for better average (hence the good average with RISP), while Dunn hits bombs. Why is one better than the other? They are still worth the same amount of runs for the team. Also, you're acting as though Dunn makes a lot of outs w/risp, which isn't true. Dunn's career OBP w/risp is .416, which is better than Morneau's. That means he is keeping more rallies going. You can look at it either way.

yeah, i don't really care. this is a non-issue.

most of hitting with risp is just luck, and not lucthness/unlcutchness. of course dunn's BA with risp is low, so is his overall average.

i like how scarey has been answering/responding to a smaller and smaller amount of points made my other posters has this thread has progressed. the fact that he had resorted to the "they are gms and know more" argument is pretty telling.

I guess I just take issue with the fact that you guys here seem to think that GMs, people who get paid millions of dollars for their expertise and have moved up through a system of professionals, are wrong and you're right. That they undervalue a guy like Adam Dunn and you have the correct value figured out. Did you ever stop to think that maybe it's not the GMs undervaluing Dunn, but you guys over valuing Dunn? Just stop and think about it as a possibility for a second. using the "gms know better because they are gms" argument is a copout. what about when sabean gave zito 126 million? what about 2/40 for andruw jones? 5/50 for gary matthews jr? 5/50 for juan pierre? 8/126 for soriano? do you agree with all those contracts? you have to, because you just said we can't question gms' intelligence Yes or no, you know better then an average baseball GM? Who said that we did? B/c they know more than me. Yes or no, have you agreed with every move the cubs have ever made? No. But I'm man enough to admit that I'm not in the position to say they were wrong... at least until hindsight. so you won't say that those guys were bad singing because you're a man? either that or you just don't want to amdit the very obvious truth. when those conbtracts were signed everybody knew they were bad...and guess what? it turns out they were, in fact, bad.

I guess I just take issue with the fact that you guys here seem to think that GMs, people who get paid millions of dollars for their expertise and have moved up through a system of professionals, are wrong and you're right. That they undervalue a guy like Adam Dunn and you have the correct value figured out. Did you ever stop to think that maybe it's not the GMs undervaluing Dunn, but you guys over valuing Dunn? Just stop and think about it as a possibility for a second. using the "gms know better because they are gms" argument is a copout. what about when sabean gave zito 126 million? what about 2/40 for andruw jones? 5/50 for gary matthews jr? 5/50 for juan pierre? 8/126 for soriano? do you agree with all those contracts? you have to, because you just said we can't question gms' intelligence Yes or no, you know better then an average baseball GM? why are you spinning everything around? i never said i knew more. that doesn't mean you can't understand when a gm is making a mistake. your arguments are becoming progressibly more weak and irrelevant.

f While we're on the subject, could you please tell me who you think was a better player in 2008? Adam Dunn or Justin Morneau? I'm not just talking about how important they were for their respective teams. I want to know in a vacuum, who played better last year, Dunn or Morneau? Dunn had 40 HRs, 100 RBI, 79 R and posted a .236/.386/.513 line Morneau had 23 HRs, 129 RBI, 97 R, and posted a .300/.374/.499 line Please, just tell me who was better and what your justification was? I would love to hear what any of you guys think here and really want to understand your side of it. I don't care that Morneau isn't in the Cubs plans, I simply want to know which you think was better offensively last year. Morneau, and I never said he wasn't. My point is that him being better has absolutely nothing to do with RBIs. Nothing. What makes him better? He's just a better hitter. Lots of stats show this. None of them are RBIs. You really need to stop with this RBI stuff. Show me one stat that shows he's a better hitter. I've actually already shown you one, and I can show you another if you want me to. I just want to know your argument on the topic besides "He's just a better hitter". no, you didn't show me one. you showed me one that you thought showed it, when really it showed absolutely nothing. i can't believe you're really talking about rbis so much. raul ibanez had more rbis than aramis last year. who was a better hitter? here's a stat though that actually does show morneau was better last year morneau- 137 ops+ dunn- 129 ops+

I guess I just take issue with the fact that you guys here seem to think that GMs, people who get paid millions of dollars for their expertise and have moved up through a system of professionals, are wrong and you're right. That they undervalue a guy like Adam Dunn and you have the correct value figured out. Did you ever stop to think that maybe it's not the GMs undervaluing Dunn, but you guys over valuing Dunn? Just stop and think about it as a possibility for a second. using the "gms know better because they are gms" argument is a copout. what about when sabean gave zito 126 million? what about 2/40 for andruw jones? 5/50 for gary matthews jr? 5/50 for juan pierre? 8/126 for soriano? do you agree with all those contracts? you have to, because you just said we can't question gms' intelligence

ugh ugh ugh. If his production comes from "1/2 run homers", then why does he drive in so many runs in a low amount of at-bats? also, why are you acting like his extremely high OBP doesn't lead to runs? dusty? is that you? so apparently a 2 run single is much more valuable than a 2 run home run or it could have something to do with the fact that dunn hit in a hitters park and morneau hit in a pitchers park. if they both played in the same park this year and both kept the samre numbers, people would be saying dunn was better http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor

to sum up this thread -home runs aren't production -rbis are - dunn is the same as soriano - dunn's production would be more valuable if it consisted of bloops and seeing eye ground balls - slugging percentage is only comprised of home runs