Transmogrified Tiger

West coast bias

Terrible example. No matter how disappointing ND's schedule has been, it's still much better than C-USA. And if we can hypothetically replace teams here and there, then I want to replace Cuse with a half-decent team. Then ND's opponent record is better. If we start opening up cans of worms like hypothetical schedule replacements, then this could go on a very long time. But then Notre Dame opens up the possibility of a 3rd loss. No matter, I'm not trying to make the case that they're equals, but I think it's pretty interesting when you are trying to consider the difference between a two loss team that's played quality competition and a one loss team who hasn't.

heretic. KU vs. ISU. If KU wins, we're bowl eligible. Please lose. Of course, the other two dominoes will already have to be in place since that game is on the 26th, but please lose anyway.

O$U is a great team, and they would probably do the same. I have never taken anything away from O$U. They are a victim of the weakness of the polls. If they were ranked above ND I would not complain, and there is a chance they will meet in the Fiesta Bowl which would be a great game. Here are some interesting stats about the ND wins this year (and losses) taken from an ND message board. Doesn't prove much but it is interesting, well some of it, some of it is irrelevant IMO. I am not by any means saying ND deserves to be ahead of all these teams. I do think their is an argument for it though, which it seems a majority of coaches and sports writers do to. My whole point was to find out why some people always complain about ND and not other teams in the same (or very similiar) situation. I was not putting anyone down or trying to start this whole debate again. I was an honest question. We could go around all day on the rankings, which is part of what is great about college football, but also shows what sucks about the system. You provided me with your argument and I accept it. It is very plausible that O$U has a legit reason to be above ND. I just never hear anyone complain about why O$U is ranked ahead of Oregon or UCLA, or why is Auburn ahead of UCLA or West Virgina; but why is ND ahead of so-and-so. Apparently people feel that way due to the schedule. Fair enough. I really doubt the voters are looking at those obscure facts. They go both ways as well. Only Hawaii and Illinois gave up more points to MSU than ND did. Same situation against Washington, only Idaho and Arizona were worse. Eastern Michigan and Indiana are the only teams to score fewer points against Michigan than Notre Dame this year. Food for thought. The biggest wins to ND and TCU's credit this year are road wins at perennial powerhouses have down years that have 3 losses this year. If you replace Army with USC on their schedule(a certain loss for the Horned Frogs), their opponents have a 54-54 record, compared to ND's 55-55 outlined above. Notre Dame is ranked 6/7, TCU 15th.

Not to speak for Raisin, but what gets me is that ND is the highest ranked team with 2 losses, and they have possibly the worst profile to show for it. At least O$U, Auburn, and Georgia have wins over good teams, and the worst of the losses that OSU, Georgia, or Auburn(who really has no business being above UCLA) have suffered is Georgia Tech. I agree that ND wins are that good (on paper), and the MSU loss is a negative against them. I will not get into the USC loss. However I think that it is important to look at not just the record, but how they play. ND has dominated every team they beat this year (an argument could be made against UM). They are not just beating the teams they should beat, they are killing them, and in the process beating them worse than any other team that beat them this year. I really don't know if the same could be said about the other teams you listed. Who was Georgia's good win, Tennessee, Boise State, South Carolina? Besides Georgia, Auburn has beat nobody great, and it could be argued the rest of their schedule is worse than ND's. And aside of MSU, O$U has not beat anybody real good. Even MSU is not that good, but I mention them due to the fact they did beat ND, which does make the O$U argument more legit. ND is ranked higher in the human polls because of how they play. They are ranked lower in the CPU polls for all the reasons you listed. It all evens out in the BCS polls (which is sad to say). They look good because they blew out Pitt, Washington, Purdue, BYU, Navy, and Tennessee, with Syracuse and Stanford to go. At best 8 of Notre Dame's opponents will be bowl eligible(only 3 are at the moment), and 4 of those need to win out to do so. Meanwhile 8 of OSU's opponents are already bowl eligible, with a possibility of a 9th. You don't think OSU dominates ND's opponents if they played them, instead of playing those top 10 teams in addition to Iowa, Northwestern, and Minnesota? Edited to reflect that I can't read team's records. Sorry to whoever responds calling out these mistakes before I corrected them. EDIT2: Furthermore, Ohio State is blowing out teams too. Miami(OH), SDSU, Iowa, Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, even Minnesota and MSU were multiple score wins. Their closest margin of victory was 11 points at home against MSU, the team Notre Dame couldn't beat at home.

Not to speak for Raisin, but what gets me is that ND is the highest ranked team with 2 losses, and they have possibly the worst profile to show for it. At least O$U, Auburn, and Georgia have wins over good teams, and the worst of the losses that OSU, Georgia, or Auburn(who really has no business being above UCLA) have suffered is Georgia Tech. Michigan is 7-3...that's not too terribly bad. And is Georgia Tech really that much better than MSU? The Spartans were undefeated after they beat ND, after all. ND hasn't played a great schedule, but I'm pretty sure Kentucky, Indiana, Vanderbilt, Mississippi State, Arkansas and Illinois are all still in the SEC or Big Ten. For every cupcake ND has played (Purdue, Navy, BYU, Washington), most of the big conference teams have played one as well. OSU has played SDSU, Miami (OH), Indiana and Illinois. Auburn has played Miss St, Ball St, W. Kentucky, and Kentucky. Georgia has played UL Monroe, Miss St, Vanderbilt, Arkansas and still has Kentucky left. So the schedule argument really doesn't hold up in my estimation. I don't have the time to do it now, but look at the records of the schedule. My guess is Notre Dame is worse then OSU and Georgia, if not significantly so. Notre Dame has played one team that is currently in the top 25. They lost at home to a team that is favored to miss a bowl(think about that, I think almost 60 teams make bowls). Where's the logic to put them in front of Georgia, Auburn, and OSU, leaving out the 5 one-loss teams they are in front of?

Not to speak for Raisin, but what gets me is that ND is the highest ranked team with 2 losses, and they have possibly the worst profile to show for it. At least O$U, Auburn, and Georgia have wins over good teams, and the worst of the losses that OSU, Georgia, or Auburn(who really has no business being above UCLA) have suffered is Georgia Tech.

Julio Lugo and Jose Guillen are two players off the top of my head that were perceived crazy clubhouse cancers(Lugo had a similar incident as Bradley, Guillen got the same treatment from the Angels that T.O is getting). Now you don't hear anything about them being a disruption. In fact, there was nothing but rave reports about Guillen being a good guy from his Nationals teammates. read the link he posted. choking your pregnant wife doesn't fall into the "clubhouse cancer" category. :shock: I read the link, Lugo reportedly beat his wife as well. Yet there's no stigma with him anymore now that there's some time away from the incident. What does that have to do with anything? You are basically defending the guy by saying "player A did it and they dont' say anything about him anymore". Very poor argument. What's even worse is that Bradley is not that great of a player to be all love-striken over. It has plenty to do with anything. People don't want to acquire Bradley because he's supposedly some maniac that is a bad person and/or will be a bad influence on the clubhouse. Lugo and Guillen are evidence to the contrary. And Bradley is quite good especially considering how much he'll make, his age, and the fact that the Dodgers reportedly want nothing for him.

Julio Lugo and Jose Guillen are two players off the top of my head that were perceived crazy clubhouse cancers(Lugo had a similar incident as Bradley, Guillen got the same treatment from the Angels that T.O is getting). Now you don't hear anything about them being a disruption. In fact, there was nothing but rave reports about Guillen being a good guy from his Nationals teammates. read the link he posted. choking your pregnant wife doesn't fall into the "clubhouse cancer" category. :shock: I read the link, Lugo reportedly beat his wife as well. Yet there's no stigma with him anymore now that there's some time away from the incident.

worst tournament ever It's got quite the field this year though. 4 of the AP preseason top 10 plus another ranked team(Maryland) and Kansas.

Nope, they didn't play.

Smoke Em? I admire you confidence but thats pretty strong. Both of OSU's losses were to top 5 teams and games they could have won. Its not like they got blown out verse texas or penn state. When was the last time OSU got smoked, probably not since Cooper was coach, it just doesnt happen. You neednt think about OSU/ND bowl game, Michigan will hopefully take care of business this coming saturday. Iowa blew out O$U last year, if memory serves. Still your point is correct, and it's just as likely that O$U would smoke ND than the other way around IMO. Alabama falls below Notre Dame? This is getting out of hand.

Julio Lugo and Jose Guillen are two players off the top of my head that were perceived crazy clubhouse cancers(Lugo had a similar incident as Bradley, Guillen got the same treatment from the Angels that T.O is getting). Now you don't hear anything about them being a disruption. In fact, there was nothing but rave reports about Guillen being a good guy from his Nationals teammates.

I think having Wilkerson would be fantastic, but do you think they are looking at him as a CF or as a RF? Furcal Murton Lee Giles/Abreu etc Ramirez Wilkerson Barett Cedeno Wow. Wilkerson doesn't have the production numbers to play RF. Bradley or Wilkerson have great numbers for a CF, but would be below average in production for RF. That's true of last year, but both have put up RF caliber numbers in previous seasons.

Wilkerson's an odd case. His BABIP was actually higher this year than his better 2004. To me, you're getting a guy who in his down year was an average producing CF with good OBP. If he improves, then you have fantastic production at a good price. If not, then you have solid CF production and as long as you didn't sell the farm to get him, there's nothing to worry about.

That sucks. I REALLY want Oregon to lose. Otherwise ND may end up playing them in the Fiesta Bowl, and I can think of much better matchups. I know, Oregon-O$U would be much better. :wink:

I've always liked Oregon for some reason. Maybe it's cause they have cool uniforms and have the same colors as my High School. Oregon makes the field goal and WSU has one second to make something happen.

As someone who is hoping that Mizzou by several freak occurrences makes it to a BCS game with an 8-4 record, no. :P Here's your BCS nightmare, with all the possibilities except a couple already explained in this thread: Pac-10: Oregon Big 12: Missouri Big Ten: Penn State (no offense PSU, just that Mich and OSU have more national pull) ACC: 8-4 Florida State SEC: South Carolina (Is this even possible?) Big East: South Florida (don't laugh, if USF wins out, including beating WV, this is a reality) At-larges: UCLA/USC (If UCLA beat USC and won out I can't imagine either of them getting passed up; I'm assuming further nightmarish occurrences such as ND losing one of their last two) Ouch. Would there be any room for at-larges in that scenario? Penn State is the only conference winner that could conceivably be in the championship game in that scenario, and I'd think that USC and Texas would both have as good a shot as them.

As someone who is hoping that Mizzou by several freak occurrences makes it to a BCS game with an 8-4 record, no. :P

Jim Bowden is a man who purposely went after Marlon Byrd last year. I think it's safe to say that Patterson is a toolsy guy that he would like. Whether or not he'll give up Wilkerson for him remains to be seen. One thing that is worth pointing out is that Wilkerson is a player Hendry really likes. Some of us have been quick to point out that certain players Hendry targets(Kearns jumps out to me right away) signal that he's more interested in the tools than OBP. Hendry wanted Wilkerson in a discussed Sosa deal reportedly, and now he's reportedly trying to get him again for Patterson. This is good news that Hendry apparently sees value in Wilkerson's skill set. I just hope if acquired they put him in CF, let him hit first or second and leave him alone.

Mizzou opens with a Preseason NIT game against Sam Houston State. Hopefully they win and play Princeton/Drexel at home in the second round. A win in that game sends Mizzou to the Garden for a showdown with Duke(barring Duke getting upset). Michigan State travels to play Hawaii before attending the Maui Invitational. There they face Chaminade and if victorious get the winner of Maryland/Gonzaga. MSU also hosts Georgia Tech before the end of the month.

Please please please beat Colorado. ISU nearly doubles up in the last 17 minutes of the game, and beats CU 30-16. A Mizzou, ISU, and Nebraska win in the final B12 game gives Mizzou the B12 North.

Iowa State fails to convert a 4th and 1 in their own half of the field. :x

FG Iowa State, 16-13 Cyclones, < 10 min in the 3rd. These announcers are making a huge deal out of having the wind, methinks they are overblowing it a bit(pardon the pun). EDIT: ISU picks off a pass at their own 4! First down Cyclones at their own 28.

Colorado just tied Iowa State at 13. Plz win ISU.