Transmogrified Tiger

Based on what? OPS? C'mon. VORP Ichiro 45 Bradley 24 Win Shares Ichiro 24 Bradley 11 That's because Bradley didn't have the PT Ichiro did. VORPr Bradley .319 Ichiro .254 EqA Bradley .290 Ichiro .279

Right :roll: . The man is 32 and keeps himself in excellent condition. Very few people have sharp declines at 32, and those that do aren't nearly as talented as Ichiro. I wonder how many people said Kenny Lofton was due for a sharp decline 6 years ago, or Finley 8 years ago, etc. And those guys aren't as talented as Ichiro. If Ichiro bats .280 next season, then you essentially have Neifi Perez. I'm just saying it's due. It might not happen, but I wouldn't be shocked. You can apply this to every major league player. Barry Bonds might only walk 20 times. ARod might only hit 15 HR's. Pierre might only steal 10 bases. Manny might only drive in 60 runs. Randy Johnson might only strike out 40 guys. I wouldn't bet on any of them happening though. No, the point is that Ichiro's entire offensive value is tied to him hitting .330. He doesn't walk alot, and he doesn't hit for good power. As he ages, he'll slow down and lose bat speed, and all those extra singles he got will dwindle away. Ichiro hitting .280 means he has an OBP/SLG of .330/.390. Abysmal for someone with his salary. I'm not saying he's going to hit .280, but Rocket's point is correct. For someone who's offensive value is defined by his ability to get a bunch of extra singles, it's a smart bet that his decline will be sharper than others. For someone who thinks signing Bradley to be a great idea, I'm hard pressed to understand how you dislike Ichiro? How many times has Ichiro been suspended, sent home or sent to anger management? I never said I disliked Ichiro, I was supporting Rocket's point about his abilities. That said, Ichiro isn't worth the haul we'd have to trade for him. He's a guy that puts up a .370 OBP with a ton of singles, and we'd be paying through the nose to get him. I really don't see what Bradley has to do with it, but he outproduced Ichiro this year.

I'll take the first option everyday and twice on Sundays. What if Lugo cost the Cubs Pie? Then the Devil Rays will keep BJ Upton in the minors for another year because no one would trade for Lugo at that cost. He will cost some team some talent Raisin, maybe not Pie talent but some pretty decent talent. Agreed, but the DRays aren't getting a top-25 MLB prospect for him. They're more likely to get something like Hill and Nolasco for him. I'd probably make that deal if the saved money would help us land Giles. One year of Lugo isn't worth 2 of our best pitching prospects that are both near ML-ready.

Way to dance away from the truth about performance. Baseball-Reference, certainly a non-biased source, lists similiar pitchers and players. Here are the top 3 'similiar pitchers' for those mentioned. Roger Clemens: Tom Seaver, Greg Maddux, Steve Carlton Randy Johnson:: Jim Palmer, Bob Gibson, Bob Feller Kerry Wood: Dave Boswell, Steve Busby, Jim Nash Standards never change. 20 wins in a year, .300 BA, 100 RBI, under 2.00 ERA, etc... You can project all the numbers you want and say 'what if?'..but you have to produce on the field. Player A through age 28: 49-48, 3.94 ERA Player B through age 28: 70-54, 3.67 ERA Guess which one is Randy Johnson, and which one is Kerry Wood.

How many bunt singles did he have that year? Ichiro's speed is a big reason he gets those singles.

I think his contention was that the same people who waver a bit on Dunn because of his "one dimension" are the some of the same ones who fawn over Pierre for his "all around game".

Right :roll: . The man is 32 and keeps himself in excellent condition. Very few people have sharp declines at 32, and those that do aren't nearly as talented as Ichiro. I wonder how many people said Kenny Lofton was due for a sharp decline 6 years ago, or Finley 8 years ago, etc. And those guys aren't as talented as Ichiro. If Ichiro bats .280 next season, then you essentially have Neifi Perez. I'm just saying it's due. It might not happen, but I wouldn't be shocked. You can apply this to every major league player. Barry Bonds might only walk 20 times. ARod might only hit 15 HR's. Pierre might only steal 10 bases. Manny might only drive in 60 runs. Randy Johnson might only strike out 40 guys. I wouldn't bet on any of them happening though. No, the point is that Ichiro's entire offensive value is tied to him hitting .330. He doesn't walk alot, and he doesn't hit for good power. As he ages, he'll slow down and lose bat speed, and all those extra singles he got will dwindle away. Ichiro hitting .280 means he has an OBP/SLG of .330/.390. Abysmal for someone with his salary. I'm not saying he's going to hit .280, but Rocket's point is correct. For someone who's offensive value is defined by his ability to get a bunch of extra singles, it's a smart bet that his decline will be sharper than others.

Lugo career: .276/.340/.400 Furcal career: .284/.348/.409 Looks pretty similar to me.

I think it was a joke.

Pierre the top priority? Not smart if true.

Dunn would be a very very good trade target. Kearns, not so much.

Good read Ronnie. Vazquez and Erstad to Boston; Ramirez to Anaheim; Boston and Anaheim send good prospects to Arizona. Or a scenario that involves sending Vazquez and Glaus to Boston for Manny; Then Arizona sends Manny to Anaheim for pitching. What pitching would they get? Manny + cash for Ervin Santana and Donnelly?

You should care what his SLG is. SLG isn't just driving runners in, it's the ability to get around the bases without the help of your teammates. The more you can do that, the more likely you are to score. That's why Walker with a .350/.450 OBP/SLG is more valuable than Pierre putting up .365/.390. Sure Pierre steals more bases, but if we include that(which is unfair to begin with because a double is more valuable than a single and a steal) then his OBP should be deducted for his CS%. In addition to all of this, Pierre is coming off of the worst season of his career. Even at his best Pierre isn't great. He'll put up a decent OBP, but some of that is mitigated with his average to mediocre SB%; he is terrible at hitting for extra bases. He's not a good defender. I can probably name a half dozen players off the top of my head that could be or are available that would be as good or better options(Bradley, Michaels, Crisp, GMJ, Cameron, Giles). He shouldn't be a top priority.

What he said. Name the last time Hendry traded the best prospect in the organization and got fleeced. (no, the Dontrelle trade does not qualify) Cruz for Pratt? Cruz was the best prospect in the org? Close to, although he had a bit of major league time under his belt.

What's he supposed to do? Just try different things that may or may not be worse for him without any direction? Wildly untrue. All the reports I've seen have Kerry being ready for ST. Have you seen otherwise?

That's wild. Good find.

Here are his career numbers by position: 1B: .242/.289/.434/.723 (299 PA's) LF: .240/.290/.590/.880 (105 PA's) RF: .277/.329/.486/.815 (1513 PA's) DH: .227/.294/.390/.683 (395 PA's) Overall: .261/.315/.466/.781 (2342 PA's) While he does outperform his career norms as a corner outfielder, I don't like that his OBP remains low to anemic depending on the position.

Or maybe they just think they are the same morans that gave Neifi Perez $5 million. Just say no to Pierre. I'd rather have Patterson. If Bradley can be had for nothing, I don't know why Hendry is still thinking about Pierre. Exactly. Bradley is a better (leadoff) hitter than Pierre, he'll be cheaper money-wise and player-wise, we'll have him under contract longer, he plays better defense, he's younger, and he's not coming off of a terrible year.

pierre's doesn't look that good imo Pierre would never wear his hat straight. And I don't want Pierre. Gee guys... thanx for the "nice photoshopping" and "boy, they do look good" comments.... :roll: It was a joke about Pierre, not about your work.

woohoo, Mizzou is a good win! Seriously though, if Mizzou is a good win, then there's a lot of good wins to be had. They're a fringe bowl team right now, and while the game was at Mizzou, it was a blowout.

At 3 years, it's pretty much inexcusable not to vehemently pursue Giles.

Those numbers represent 68 at bats over 3 months. That's basically an at-bat per game. Choi was the better option to play against right handers.

If we are going to go for the lower end of production, I'd rather get someone with age on their side.

pierre's doesn't look that good imo Pierre would never wear his hat straight. And I don't want Pierre.

How the heck did this turn out to be a commentary on his career? All I pointed out was that in this case, Dusty was right to play the veteran. I'm not campaigning for him to go into the Hall for crying out loud. The Karros we saw was all of the things you point out above, but more importantly, he was a better option than Choi. Karros v. RHP in '03 .246/.286/.397/.683 in 237 PA's