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No. He could have a bad year and you still shouldn't write him off. No one is writing him off. The fans didn't boo him when he blew threw the stop sign. The fans didn't boo when he walked the first hitter on 4 pitches. The fans didn't boo that inning. They booed when he continued to walk hitters, including one guy he had down 0-2, and then gave up run scoring hits to a .200 hitting #8 hitter and then the pitcher. Cub fans watched Juan Pierre go a whole season in 2006 hardly ever drawing a walk, and knowing you can throw him the meatiest fastball ever and he probably wouldn't hit it past the 2nd baseman, but Carlos walks him. This team is better than they have been playing. Fans are excited right now sitting in first place with less than a month to play, and emotions are at an all time high. They expect a little bit more from their staff ace and there really is nothing wrong with showing some negative emotion for the collective crap he has strung together. Interesting how Cubs fans never booed pierre off the field the way they did Carlos yesterday. Makes me wonder if they really aren't all that knowledgeable.

Bad Month? Care to change that? Jesus had had FOUR YEARS of being good to great. he's had a month and half of being bad lately. Leave it to a Cards fan to actually bring perspective in. April=1 May=2 August =3 and 1 start in Sept. You have a new way of doing math? lol. you're something else. ERA + of 110 (16 starts) 136 (32 starts) 165 (31 starts) 131 (33 starts) 136 (33 starts) 111 (28 starts) He's built up EQUITY with me, and I believe he should have with everyone. Even with a bad year.

Yea I know its just all us ignorant Cub fans. If Carpenter had pitched like this down the stretch immediatly after becoming the highest paid pitcher in baseball on an average basis, and then made an ignorant comment about the fans, the greatest fans in baseball would just keep loving away, and not boo or say a word. Yea thats it..... I'd bet my bank account Cards fans wouldn't boo Carpenter after 5 bad starts.

Bad Month? Care to change that? Jesus had had FOUR YEARS of being good to great. he's had a month and half of being bad lately. Leave it to a Cards fan to actually bring perspective in.

I believe I have seen him acknowledge the fans on more than 1 occasion. You know what I mean. He wouldn't even discuss it with Len the other day.

What about our other pitchers? Should Lee and Ramirez get booed for having no power this year? Anytime a player has a bad run they should get booed? Its not just about the bad pitching the last month. Its everything else taken into as a whole. The fans of Chicago want to win so badly, and they know this year the team has a chance at the playoffs. Yesterday was a big game for us, as the fans could see Stl losing and Milw losing, and then Z comes out and craps the bed. The fans were upset just like Z was upset with Barret. However its ok for Z to show his emotion towards Barret, but not for the fans to show their emotion towards big Z. That is hipocracy at its finest plain and simple. That's the thing though-it wasn't fine for Z to show his emotion towards Barrett, and he admitted that and apologized for it. If you are going to compare the two situations, then you're saying that the booing was unjustified. No thats the thing CCP, Z should know better than anybody how even if you are teammates, like you are saying he thinks the fans are, that in the heat of the battle things happen. Z had 2 hours to calm down before his press conference and still came out with that emotion, while the fans showed theirs immediatly while things were happening. Oh definitely, and I doubt Z would have brought it up by himself. How is he supposed to respond to the questions by the media though? I guess maybe he should have responded like you said, that he didn't feel it was the right thing for the fans to do but he can understand why they did that in the heat of the game. Exactly Kip Wells was bood big time yesterday as well and said he expected it. Jacque Jones handled the boo'ing perfectly as well. There were numerous things Z could have done but didnt, even after having 2 hours to think about what he was going to say. Jock also hates the fans and won't even acknowledge their cheering now. Because it's hypocritical.

What about our other pitchers? Should Lee and Ramirez get booed for having no power this year? Anytime a player has a bad run they should get booed? You can't compare other pitchers to Z. He's paid close to 100 million dollars to win games like yesterday. He's been flat out our worse pitcher down the stretch. And like I said he's built up equity. This isn't some scrub struggling. I just don't see what the point of booing a guy whose arguably your best pitcher, when you know he's gonna take it personally, and it may ruin the rest of his time here in Chicago. I say god bless Z for actually caring. no one is gonna convince me otherwise. I subscribe to the philosophy that the only reason a player should get booed is because they slack, they don't give effort, they are a bad person (John Rocker, wife beaters, etc.).

Zambrano can let his emotions get the better of him and deck Michael Barrett, but fans are supposed to sit on their hands the entire game and show zero emotion. Zambrano is the prince of emotion, in line to succeed Ron Santo as king. Cardinal fans were dead wrong to boo any part of their 11 run blowout yesterday, too. If only the fans would have cheered louder at each fundamental blow up, the Cardinal players would have seized the moment and scored 12 runs to come back and win the game. It doesn't work that way. Fans pay money to show some emotion at the game. They all prefer to cheer the whole game. And they don't boo when someone boots a ground ball. Boot 4 or 5 ground balls and yeah, you're going to hear displeasure. It's the nature of the beast. Well when you do it to an emotional guy like Zambrano (which incidentally is what makes him both great and awful), who is sensitive, it's only natural he's confused about the intent of fans. If i was cheered one day, had 4 years of being one of the best players on the team, and then I was booed because of one up or down year, I'd think fans were selfish too. And I'd be right. No you wouldnt be. Z is emotional, and right now in the heat of the pennant race when Z is needed more than ever hes pitching like Kip Wells, he would be a fool to think the fans arent going to show their emotion just like they would with him if he was pitching great. Z cant have it both ways. Its either ok to be emotional during the heat of a game, or its not. Its a 2 way street here. Well it's obvious that Z cares. It's obvious he was hurt yesterday. Not all players are thick skinned. If you want the Cubs to win, we NEED Z. Crushing his spirit when we need him the most won't be productive. But go ahead and think your right to boo is principled. It's as hypocritical as it gets, so enjoy it. How is that hypocritical? Most fans aren't sophisticated enough to go through an analysis of what consequences their actions will have on a player. In fact, I would guess most fans don't care. It is the nature of the beast. If there is one player that should understand that emotions sometimes get the best of people, I would think it would be Zambrano. What's hypocritical is booing a guy then cheering him wildly then booing him again all in the span of 4 months.

What about our other pitchers? Should Lee and Ramirez get booed for having no power this year? Anytime a player has a bad run they should get booed?

Zambrano can let his emotions get the better of him and deck Michael Barrett, but fans are supposed to sit on their hands the entire game and show zero emotion. Zambrano is the prince of emotion, in line to succeed Ron Santo as king. Cardinal fans were dead wrong to boo any part of their 11 run blowout yesterday, too. If only the fans would have cheered louder at each fundamental blow up, the Cardinal players would have seized the moment and scored 12 runs to come back and win the game. It doesn't work that way. Fans pay money to show some emotion at the game. They all prefer to cheer the whole game. And they don't boo when someone boots a ground ball. Boot 4 or 5 ground balls and yeah, you're going to hear displeasure. It's the nature of the beast. Well when you do it to an emotional guy like Zambrano (which incidentally is what makes him both great and awful), who is sensitive, it's only natural he's confused about the intent of fans. If i was cheered one day, had 4 years of being one of the best players on the team, and then I was booed because of one up or down year, I'd think fans were selfish too. And I'd be right. No you wouldnt be. Z is emotional, and right now in the heat of the pennant race when Z is needed more than ever hes pitching like Kip Wells, he would be a fool to think the fans arent going to show their emotion just like they would with him if he was pitching great. Z cant have it both ways. Its either ok to be emotional during the heat of a game, or its not. Its a 2 way street here. Well it's obvious that Z cares. It's obvious he was hurt yesterday. Not all players are thick skinned. If you want the Cubs to win, we NEED Z. Crushing his spirit when we need him the most won't be productive. But go ahead and think your right to boo is principled. It's as hypocritical as it gets, so enjoy it.

Zambrano can let his emotions get the better of him and deck Michael Barrett, but fans are supposed to sit on their hands the entire game and show zero emotion. Zambrano is the prince of emotion, in line to succeed Ron Santo as king. Cardinal fans were dead wrong to boo any part of their 11 run blowout yesterday, too. If only the fans would have cheered louder at each fundamental blow up, the Cardinal players would have seized the moment and scored 12 runs to come back and win the game. It doesn't work that way. Fans pay money to show some emotion at the game. They all prefer to cheer the whole game. And they don't boo when someone boots a ground ball. Boot 4 or 5 ground balls and yeah, you're going to hear displeasure. It's the nature of the beast. Well when you do it to an emotional guy like Zambrano (which incidentally is what makes him both great and awful), who is sensitive, it's only natural he's confused about the intent of fans. If i was cheered one day, had 4 years of being one of the best players on the team, and then I was booed because of one up or down year, I'd think fans were selfish too. And I'd be right.

sorry about the tone of my post, I was just heated up.

You make some decent points about Zambrano. If only you could put it into words without calling everyone that disagrees with you "major idiots" or "fickle moronic idiots". I was referring to the fans that booed yesterday. Not anybody on this site.

I don't even want to read this thread, because I'm sure it's full of plenty of posts that are major idiots. People that boo players based on performance are fickle moronic idiots. It's so stupid that it's beyond my comprehension how fans can cheer a player for two months and the minute they struggle they get booed not sporadically, but by the entire crowd. It's classless, bushleague, philly type crap, and it doesn't surprise me that even people in here are ripping him. The guy has been our best pitcher BY far, for the last 4 years. He's built up some equity. The fact that he actually cares, is his downfall. In a time with athletes that don't give a crap about fans and what they think, you could genuinely tell that Z cared about that reaction. It's actually refreshing to me. I agree 100% with everything he said, although fans might not be selfish, they are certainly hypocritical idiots. he signed for less money because he really wanted nothing more than to be a Cub for life. And with that he is rewarded by the crap yesterday. The only reason players should be booed is for lack of effort. And no one wants to win more than Carlos. I'm embarrassed about what Wrigley is turning into.

12.7 IP 8 hits 0 HR 4 ER/Runs 10K/8BB 2.84 ERA 1.26 WHIP ERA+ 159 7.11k/9 .585 OPS against He seems to be gaining more and more confidence with each successful outing. I'd like him to be a 4th guy that would pitch in tight situations (along with Marmol, Howry, and Demp).

What is required in order to be on the playoff roster and how many spots is it?

His OPS in the second half is .851. Please find me CF'ers we could have had with a better second half OPS. His OPS over his last 30 games is .924. It's clear that his abhorrent start is affecting that OPS greatly, so comments like yours are clearly disingenuous because they look at his numbers in a vacuum. It's clear he's been a different Jock since the break. Posting those numbers wouldn't help you though.l

Game threads are emotional journeys that aren't suppose to make sense. This was worse than normal. If I wasn't a moderator who knew stuff would come up in the thread, I'd have bailed. Fair enough. I guess I missed most of the really annoying drama. You didn't miss anything but cubs.com esque ridiculosity (yes I made up that term) and a total lack of any semblence of perspective. But I guess that's what game threads are. I've seen some crazy stuff posted, but the "game over's" in the third inning take the cake. I think we were supposed to score 5 runs over 3 games according to someone so I guess we should just go home for the last two. Oh and Rich Hill and his team leading ERA+ suck. Stupid pitcher can't bunt.

We've secured a .500 road trip with this win, which is what you want to do on the road. Let's take at least one more!

It was probably the same pitch that everyone curses Lee for NOT swinging at. It doesn't matter if he swings at a first pitch if it's a good pitch to swing at. That pitch looked down the middle.

Is WGN choppy for anyone else?

how is this bad? He's a right handed bat with power (would be in 4th place on the Cubs in HR) who can hit LHP. We gave up nothing. Did I say if it was bad or good? It was obvious Hendry was gunning for him for a while now. I actually like the move as a platoon or bench player against lefties. He's much better than Fox btw, who looked abysmal last night. Oh I misinterpreted the "tone" of your first post. My bad!

how is this bad? He's a right handed bat with power (would be in 4th place on the Cubs in HR) who can hit LHP. We gave up nothing.

What a stupid post. Its stupid to think Jacque and Monroe are similar? Or that the trade is pointless? It's stupid to not realize one hits rhp (and can't hit LHP at all) and the other hits lhp (and can't hit RHP)

Jock can't hit LHP can he? Monroe's good good power and splits vs. lefties.