XZero771679666304

I'm not sure Friedman is completely out and he's been my top choice all along. I just think Epstein and Friedman are on a different tier than Hahn, Coppolella, etc. Not worlds better, but better enough to sacrifice a little extra for.

There have been no signs anywhere that the Red Sox are willing to make Theo a "co-CEO," likely because Lucchino doesn't want to cede any power. I'm just clearly throwing out there that if this falls through, they can give him a shiny new title and keep him. Its not a losing situation for either team. Just an option that is all. If they wanted to appease Theo with such a position they would have already. I doubt Lucchino would stand for it even if Henry wanted to promote him, which he's shown no sign of thus far. If Theo were amenable to staying and Henry really wanted to keep him badly enough to contrive a position, things wouldn't be at this point. The chances of Theo staying in Boston beyond this offseason aren't zero, but they're close.

He isn't, Lucchino however is now more on the business side...Theo takes care of baseball ops. If you put a food chain up...Lucchino is higher as JWH mentioned on an interview recently he runs the Sox. Now if Theo takes on a business role with the Cubs then that is absolutely 100% a promotion no matter how you shake it...but depending on who you ask he doesn't want anything to do with that. The Crawford signing was all Theo apparently...There has been talk that Crawford and A-Gon were acquired for ratings purposes however this is unsubstantiated. This "X takes care of this and Y is allowed to take care of that" doesn't hold water. Baseball is a business, and business is contingent on legality and print on paper. This isn't about how you or I or anyone else interpret his role, it is about how that role is defined in his contract. It's black and white. As I said on paper it is a promotion...the original point was why the Sox would ask for compensation if it was promotion...then it turned into "wow this guy doesn't know what a promotion is" which is kind of stupid. The Sox are asking for compensation because its in reality the same job to them. If you don't like the price then don't pay it Well the issue is that at a business negotiation, what is on the paper is all that matters. If the Red Sox want to categorize his position in terms outside of those stated in his contract to spin a "this is a lateral move for Theo", that's just dicey as hell. I'm sure Theo doesn't consider it a lateral move. Because it isn't.

He isn't, Lucchino however is now more on the business side...Theo takes care of baseball ops. If you put a food chain up...Lucchino is higher as JWH mentioned on an interview recently he runs the Sox. Now if Theo takes on a business role with the Cubs then that is absolutely 100% a promotion no matter how you shake it...but depending on who you ask he doesn't want anything to do with that. The Crawford signing was all Theo apparently...There has been talk that Crawford and A-Gon were acquired for ratings purposes however this is unsubstantiated. This "X takes care of this and Y is allowed to take care of that" doesn't hold water. Baseball is a business, and business is contingent on legality and print on paper. This isn't about how you or I or anyone else interpret his role, it is about how that role is defined in his contract. It's black and white.

1) He has that already...as I said Lucchino is on the business side now...this already happened back in 06 The rest of it is semantics, in the case of him being "Co CEO" he could appoint a general manager and be put into a Shapiro role and have Cherrington be his Chris Antonelli...I see where you're coming from, but Byrnes is not in place and as of right not that's only an assumption, until Theo gets hired Byrnes cannot get hired. Thus for now Theo could be whatever the hell he pleases but if he keeps the same duties then he is the GM still...no? Wow. No. Okay so where is the fault in this? Once again...hes going to be doing the same job and the Cubs knew compensation was involved prior...is it a promotion? sure...is it going to turn out hes doing the same job? yes...this is why compensation was requested on the front end. Unless he is doing the same job IN AN OFFICIAL CAPACITY it doesn't constitute having the same position. It's really pretty astounding that you can't/won't recognize that fact. The fact that Lucchino could, even if he doesn't, step in and overrule him on baseball ops matters makes it a lesser position by default.

The paper is all that matters. If this was to go before a mediator that argument would be dismissed out of hand. And it has been made fairly clear that Lucchino has meddled in baseball ops throughout, so let's not pretend Theo is reporting only to Henry, as he would only be reporting to Ricketts, in actuality and contractually. Trying to spin this into a lateral move is laughable. Since 2006 when has Lucchino clearly meddled in Baseball ops...this is my issue with what you're presenting right now. I haven't seen evidence of this, and believe me I'd love to hear how it was him and not Theo that signed Lackey...since I can't stand the guy...but really? Yes its a promotion on paper but we all know that hes going to be doing the same thing. Bottom line...Cubs knew compensation would be involved and they proceeded... The media is littered with testimonies about Epstein being fed up with Lucchino's meddling. As there are accounts of signings like Crawford being negotiated by Epstein and Lucchino. How much of that is true, I don't know. But there's a lot of smoke on that front.

The paper is all that matters. If this was to go before a mediator that argument would be dismissed out of hand. And it has been made fairly clear that Lucchino has meddled in baseball ops throughout, so let's not pretend Theo is reporting only to Henry, as he would only be reporting to Ricketts, in actuality and contractually. Trying to spin this into a lateral move is laughable. He's avoiding my question. Because the notion that he has be position because Lucchino lets him have the responsibility at his whim is preposterous. "Hey, we're not officially making you president of baseball ops, but we'll let you do the job. That is unless Larry decides he wants to overrule you because you're not actually the president of baseball ops. But you effectively are, unless we want to step in. So it's really the same, okay?" LOL

The paper is all that matters. If this was to go before a mediator that argument would be dismissed out of hand. And it has been made fairly clear that Lucchino has meddled in baseball ops throughout, so let's not pretend Theo is reporting only to Henry, as he would only be reporting to Ricketts, in actuality and contractually. Trying to spin this into a lateral move is laughable.

1) This isn't an issue...Lucchino handles the business side of the house, that was a condition for Theo to come back in 06 2) If I tell a Janitor that hes now "Master of the Custodial Arts (God I love Halfbaked)" then that is more than just a Janitor...no? 3) He can get that if he stays in Boston You're really out in left field on this point. The title and official power means everything. That he performs duties beyond that of his job description is irrelevant, legally speaking. So is what he could get from Boston in the future, which is entirely hypothetical until he actually does. As it stands now, the Cubs job is absolutely a promotion.

One of Hendry's biggest flaws was that he was too nice. It was also the only reason anyone here had any mixed feelings about seeing him canned.

The fact that this is such a high profile issue and next to no actual news is leaking out is pretty astounding. It's also keeping me a prisoner to my computer.

If Marmol didn't blow that save this wouldn't be happening. The worst part of that is the Marmol's control imploded, and the Cards didn't have to earn it by actually hitting. It was a gift.

I really don't have a problem with them asking. They had to know they had no chance in hell of actually getting him, and you should start with a really high asking price in a negotiation, just as the Cubs should have started low. The issue here is where each side perceives the middle ground to be.

Its a promotion in title, not however in duties and role, that is where the disconnect is coming in. If he had his original duties back when he was first hired then there would be no absolute grey area in this matter, it can be argued. This isn't a virtual argument. MLB will look at it as a promotion, and that is all that matters in that regard. I could be assistant VP at a company and doing all the heavy lifting for my boss, but that doesn't confer to me the same status as he has, nor would it make a VP position at another company not a promotion. In Chicago, Theo would be sole President of Baseball Ops, and get a raise. To argue that it could be legally construed that he has the same position in Boston because Lucchino lets him do his work and that the Chicago job is not actually a promotion is utterly ludicrous.

The part of this that I'm thinking about is that Epstein will likely rope in Byrnes, and possibly bring a lower level guy or two with him. Would guys like Hahn/Coppolella/etc. be able to attract or draw in top supporting talent like Theo would? I'm not sure, and it's definitely a factor.

The title and the pay rate are what matters. Having "virtual" control is not having official control. It IS a promotion.

This is kind of where I'm at. I'm pretty much all-in on Theo. Do I want to give up McNutt for him? Absolutely not, but if it's going to keep us from getting Theo, I don't feel like it's worth losing out on him for a pitcher like McNutt (who could end up being a very good 2/3 starter, but isn't a guarantee). It's not necessarily that I'm all in for Theo, but I think it's iffy that McNutt retains any real value going forward. If it McNutt or a guy like Szczur, I give up Trey in a cold second.

I have to say I'm not sold on McNutt. I don't want to give him up, but he came out of nowhere and regressed a bit (somewhat due to injury, given). I think it's just as likely he drops back off the map as becomes a middle of the rotation starter. I applaud Ricketts for taking the hard line, but if we end up with Hahn/Coppolella/etc. when we could have had Theo, Byrnes and Co. because Ricketts wouldn't include Trey McNutt...well I don't think that could be looked at as a good or justified outcome. Not a disaster by any means, but not something that would sit well with me at all.

Yeah, there has really been a tight lid on this thing. I get the feeling no one not directly involved has any real idea what is going on, and that a lot of people are flat out guessing.

Theo's gone. The relationship may have been repaired before, but the rift wasn't this severe. Henry and Lucchino appear be putting themselves on one side and everyone else on another. Henry sort of just threw Theo under the bus with his comments about the Crawford signing, and he has been speaking about Theo's tenure in the past tense throughout this entire process. Theo has told the Sox he won't be staying. The only conceivable scenario where Theo stays is one where he replaces Lucchino, and there has been no indication whatsoever that could happen. The only question here is who will blink first in the showdown over compensation, and how long it will take for that to happen.

I'm not liking the prospect of waiting 7-10 more days for an official announcement of some kind.

Has anything substantive been said, or is it the same [expletive] we've been hearing for the past 72 hours?

I wonder which Cardinal is going to die so LaRussa can deliver another payment to the dark prince. If the Cards win the series, it may take two.

I don't think the Cardinals pitching can deal with the Rangers offense. Problem is, the Rangers rotation isn't so hot. But the Texas bullpen is really good and the St. Louis bullpen is bound to turn back into the pumpkin it is at some point. And the Cards don't get the benefit of the Brewers defense, so that's something. But man, can Texas hit. Of course Philly could really pitch, so who the hell knows.

Disgusting. It's up to Texas to put an end to this unholy abomination. Kill it with fire Rangers, kill it with fire.