Soul

Cedeno = FUBAR

I thought he was asking for a ball personally. The ump threw one to him right after that. Z was yelling at AJ even before AJ was half-way down the 3rd base line. How did you see that. Are you watching WGN. No. I'm watching CSN. They showed the whole incident. I'm watching CSN too. Z definitely pointed to AJ for quite awhile and shouted something at him. No, he was not asking for the ball from the ump.

I know it's been awhile now, but I still find myself expecting to see Lee chasing down those pop ups and receiving the throws @ 1B. It's still a disappointment to see Mabry every play.

Well, it does appear the Sox players heard Z say something they didn't like. Looks to me like Z started shouting something at AJ, and AJ just ignored him. I'll bet the White Sox bench didn't ignore it though.

Cedeno sucks. He needs to make an adjustment quick or his time in the majors will be short.

....

That was a very good throw by Barrett.

We've gone from the lineup we were going to field in '04 to Michael Barrett trying to hit cleanup because Ramirez can't cut it in '06. My God.

Barrett comes up to a chorus of boos.

Shhh! I get comcast chicago on DTV here in Madison 8) It's pretty nice, and I'm not quite sure why DTV keeps it on since we're not local up here obviously.

I wish there were more people on these boards willing to be reasonable in a situation like this. Good post. There is nothing "reasonable" about condoning or glorifying what Michael Barrett did. He cold-cocked and sucker-punch another human being....a cheap shot that was totally unwarranted. This is not the NHL; and, there is no room for the so-called "reasonable" and "wink-wink" condoning of this carp that you both exhibit. In other words, "BULL-oney!" Dude. Go back and read the post again. Slower this time.

Yes, well Hill needs to learn how to pitch before running his mouth.

I know with all the havoc that went on in the game... but Ramirez was 2/3 yesterday. Somehow that doesn't make up for the rest of his work this season, but good for him. maybe he is starting to hit? I mean if he starts hitting well for the rest of the season that would make up for a bad 6 weeks that he had. Or maybe not to cubs fans.. Well, my original point was his tendency to hit the DL during the season. So he would have to start hitting plus buck his trend of not being able to put in enough games to reach his potential as a ballplayer.

I know with all the havoc that went on in the game... but Ramirez was 2/3 yesterday. Somehow that doesn't make up for the rest of his work this season, but good for him.

Ramirez moving slowly down the batting order. What's the line on how many more games before he makes his obligatory trip to the DL? I'll go 10 more games. His back is already twitchy. What a waste.

This won't happen. It's too embarrassing for the organization to get fleeced in a trade, then give up the farm to re-acquire a player you should never have gotten rid of in the first place. That's just death.

Completely agree. Between the fans booing him and the coaches questioning him and the high expectations that were set for him, Corey could only realize his potential somewhere else. I do hope he ends up figuring things out and puts up something along his 2003 line. Don't blame the fans. It's an indictment of the Cub organization. If players can't handle the fans booing, that's *ALSO* an indictment of the organization. Fans boo. Good players deal with it fine. And good organizations breed good players who deal with it fine. It all points back to one inescapable fact: our organization reeks to high heaven. That's why we are where we are. And that's why Corey has a shot of resurrecting his career somewhere else, where he had no chance in Chicago.

the cubs have been building for the future for 98 years, its time to win right now I hear you. I wish it were possible, but Hendry and Baker have sent this team into such a tailspin we are now miles away from contention. There's always Murphy's. And HiTops. And the CubbieBear. Enjoy Wrigleyville, because the "L" flag will be flying often for the forseeable future. The $27 million in payroll of Pierre, Maddux, and Wood alone going off the books is plenty of money to fix the team. Pie and Marshall are cheap candidates to replace Pierre and Maddux. Even if we resign Wood, surely he gets a pay cut or an incentive based contract for being hurt so much. Everyone who costs money on the bench except Nefi could be gone too (Blanco, Mabry, Hairston), so that could be fixed. Dusty is making over $4 million this year and some of that could go to player payroll. I'm not convinced Dusty is gone. It's terrible to think, but I get the feeling Hendry is going to try to extend him. To do anything else is to admit his plan isn't working----and Hendry will be loathe to do that. Especially considering, in the middle of watching an entire season go into the tank, he's bitching about the PRESS criticizing his ballclub. The guy has no clue---his "plan" is a failure. Dusty will be back, and so will alot of these clowns. That's the feeling I get.

They were actually good for a while in '85, but if I recall correctly wasn't at one point the entire starting rotation injured? Yeah. They were good for a bit, then they went on a huge 14 game bender and it was just terrible after that. I was still a kid, but I remember the bitching and moaning pretty well :)

That '04 team has got to take the cake. I'll throw '85 out there too, just for the sheer letdown of realizing '84 was a one-year affair.

I wish there were more people on these boards willing to be reasonable in a situation like this. Good post.

So how many more Cub players are planning on making themselves look like complete asses while they continually get plastered day in and day out? This is embarrassing. If anyone assiociated with the Cubs' organization reads this: WIN OR SHUT UP. Thank you.

End of your argument you mean? Barrett wasn't down blocking the plate - AJ could have touched the plate without sliding and still avoided Barrett. Or he could have slid in easily and safely. Legal or not, it was a dumb, unneccary and cheap play. Legal or not is the whole argument. You want to argue the morality of a baseball play? I'm not going to get into that, because it's a bottomless hole. My argument stands. We'll see who gets the bigger suspension. I'll be waiting to hear your excuse why Barrett got the raw end of THAT deal as well. My final take? Barrett should get 7+ games for cold-cocking someone who made a fair, within-the-rules baseball play. I'm no AJ fan, never was. But Barrett's lost his head 2 times in the past week. It's time for the league to sit him down. I appreciate that he still cares, but he needs to get control of himself.

That's why a catcher blocks the plate, to stop a sliding runner from making it to the bag. Which, in turn, is why runners try to jar the ball loose. Look, this is an accepted part of baseball and has been forever, and it always will be. If you want to support a rule change be my guest. Fact is, what AJ did was legal. End of story.

You seem to have missed the point. What happens if that ball gets cut off and Pierzynski still runs over Barrett? I don't see how it's much different because in both situations, Barrett doesn't have the ball. Yes, Barrett overreacted after he got steamrolled. But Pierzynski has to be held accountable for instigating everything. What if it does get cut off? Players are taught to blast a catcher who is blocking the plate, in an attempt to jar the ball loose. I don't think anyone is teaching the "just slide because the ball might have been cut off" technique. AJ's an ass, but he did what any other ballplayer would have done, including Barrett. Mike's just frustrated as hell right now, and I don't blame him. I appreciate that he still cares in the face of this travesty. If it does get cut off I'm sure many people on this board would be singing a completely different tune right about now even if Barrett decks Pierzynski. People would be talking about how classless it was for Pierzynski to run over Barrett when the ball wasn't even coming to the plate. I highly doubt that "any other player" would have bowled over the catcher. Are you telling me that Juan Pierre would try and run over a catcher in his way? Absolutely not. And please spare me the "Juan Pierre never get's on base and the Cubs couldn't drive him in anyway" spiel because I've heard it already (not directed at you Soul but the board in general). no offense taken. I would expect any baserunner worth his salt to blast the catcher in that situation. Whether or not people on this board would have cried about it is of no consequence. Oh, and by the way: there are other people telling the runner whether the ball has been cut off or not. In this particular case, that would have been the 3rd base coach and Podsednick. The runner doesn't have to make guesses about where the ball is.