Soul

Actually, most of it has been fans fed up with garbage baseball. Speaking of melodramatic posts. It is what is is. The past two seasons have been nothing but bad baseball on the northside. I try to be positive. I loved the Soriono signing. Didn't mind the Lily aquistion, then Hendry pulls this off. 7(maybe 9) million for Jason Marquis. Cubs fans have been putting up with this type of thing for a long, long time. I have been for 20+ years, and I love the Cubs as much or more than anyone. I kills me (not necessarily referring to you, since I don't know how old you are) when 18-20 year old kids start crying about how "sick of it" they are. I am as frustrated and angry as anyone over the events of the past few seasons (in which we actually HAD talent and largely squandered it). Having said that, after being tempered by abject failure for so long, you'd think Cubs fans would be able to respond to incompetence like this with a bit more equanimity. Hand wringing and hyperbole isn't going to accomplish anything, except maybe exacerbate the negative emotion. Thing is though, if you've been watching this club as long as I have, the whole "overspending" thing is a recent development. Most of my history as a Cub fan has been watching the team do pretty much nothing, including letting their best players get away because they were afraid to ink top-money deals. Not that paying out busloads of cash for Marquis is any better. I do find it interesting that Royals fans are overjoyed that their GM just spent the farm on a mediocre guy just because it represents a change.

Wild wins it 5-4 in OT

oh fer cryin out loud hawks penalty with 2:10 left :x

OK let's try this again then: Hawks don't have the horsepower to win a tie game late in the 3rd. 8-)

Why are they at least a .500 team. So far no one has been able to really prove that the Cubs have improved their 2 biggest problems last year much at all. Nobody can prove it, but I know for me I'm hoping Lee plays the whole year and that helps OBP a little bit. I'm also hoping Piniella doesn't have violent aversion to the concept of walks, as Dusty did. I'm of the opinion that we would have been better in the OBP department with just a little better hitting concept, even with the same players.

Yeah the Hawks just don't have the horsepower to come back late.

the problem is, there's probably no way hill pitches like he did in the 2nd half. I've heard a few scout-types say Hill is possibly the best pitching prospect in the majors right now, based on his K/inn numbers in the minors and what he did in the last 2 months of the season. I'm no scout, but I don't think it's a stretch to think Rich Hill can be a solid pitcher in this league. hmm...qualify "pitching prospect in the majors" Hill doesn't qualify as a rookie, so you can't use that to differentiate between him and, say, Felix Hernandez, Liriano or Verlander. I'm thrilled to have Hill on the team, but I could list at least 5-10 young pitchers with comparable experience that I'd take in front of him. I don't know. I'm just relaying what I heard a few people say on the radio a few weeks back.

Based on what I saw last year from those kids? Honestly, no I would rather bring in a couple vets. None of the 3 Marshall/Marmol/Guzman look ready to compete with the big boys to me. Do I like this deal? Of course not. But I absolutely do not want to be relying on the junk we got from our prospects last year. That's even more insane than giving Marquis $7m/yr, IMO. Especially given the market. Do you really believe that this team is a Jason Marquis away from competing? Jason Marquis will be a difference maker between whether we make the playoffs or whether we spend the October and November at home again? Best case scenario is that Marquis is average, worst case is that he's terrible. His three year average is trending down. From above average, to average to terrible, and he got a raise. Read that last sentence again and tell me why there should be any positivity over this signing. Because the pitching coach that most people were ready to string up by his balls thinks he found a flaw that can turn Marquis around? A flaw that apparently Duncan never got around to finding? I never said Marquis was the difference to anything. Just that I think it would be more insane to try and do what we did last year again. I've already said I don't like the signing. If you're trying to draw me into some kind of pro/anti Marquis argument, you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm not "barking up" any tree. I made a post, you responded and I did likewise. Why so defensive? Because I don't think this signing is the end of the world, and it's becoming obvious that some on this thread are ready to crucify anyone who won't join in the "weeping and gnashing of teeth." That's why I'm defensive IMB.

the problem is, there's probably no way hill pitches like he did in the 2nd half. I've heard a few scout-types say Hill is possibly the best pitching prospect in the majors right now, based on his K/inn numbers in the minors and what he did in the last 2 months of the season. I'm no scout, but I don't think it's a stretch to think Rich Hill can be a solid pitcher in this league.

Based on what I saw last year from those kids? Honestly, no I would rather bring in a couple vets. None of the 3 Marshall/Marmol/Guzman look ready to compete with the big boys to me. Do I like this deal? Of course not. But I absolutely do not want to be relying on the junk we got from our prospects last year. That's even more insane than giving Marquis $7m/yr, IMO. Especially given the market. Do you really believe that this team is a Jason Marquis away from competing? Jason Marquis will be a difference maker between whether we make the playoffs or whether we spend the October and November at home again? Best case scenario is that Marquis is average, worst case is that he's terrible. His three year average is trending down. From above average, to average to terrible, and he got a raise. Read that last sentence again and tell me why there should be any positivity over this signing. Because the pitching coach that most people were ready to string up by his balls thinks he found a flaw that can turn Marquis around? A flaw that apparently Duncan never got around to finding? I never said Marquis was the difference to anything. Just that I think it would be more insane to try and do what we did last year again. I've already said I don't like the signing. If you are trying to draw me into some kind of pro/anti Marquis argument, you're barking up the wrong tree.

How much does Marshall make? That is just mind boggling that we are going to give 9 or so million to a guy who was outperformed by someone who is probably making under a million. Sorry dont know where to find the exact numbers that Marshall makes. That's not a very fair comparison to make because it leaves out one very important item - IP. You simply cannot count on Sean Marshall to hold down a rotation spot for a year when he has yet to complete a season without significant DL time. Now, you could make an argument that the pitcher who threw less innings at the above quality level was better, but that's kinda beside the point. :D When I quoted this initial post, I had no idea it would become such a lengthy argument point! Sorry to have rubbed this in. :oops: Nah, it was a valid point to make. Even Felita is saying Marshall just wasn't ready to take on the full load. He's trying to get stronger now. I think he will benefit more from a little more seasoning. Many might not realize----Marshall didn't even have significant minor league time. He was pressed into service too early, as was Marmol.

Based on what I saw last year from those kids? Honestly, no I would rather bring in a couple vets. None of the 3 Marshall/Marmol/Guzman look ready to compete with the big boys to me. Do I like this deal? Of course not. But I absolutely do not want to be relying on the junk we got from our prospects last year. That's even more insane than giving Marquis $7m/yr, IMO. Especially given the market.

The division looks shaky, but then again so does the entire NL. I'd still say advantage Cards. And Houston's been down at this point in the offseason before, only to complete a few deals that puts them right back in it. I still have a hard time believing the Cubs will go to the playoffs this year. But I wouldn't have believed the Cards would even make the playoffs on 83 wins, either. So I guess right now there just isn't enough info.

Minny just took the lead :cry:

fricken Havlat. get back already. two close games like this, he probably makes the difference between 2 points and 4 points. He can stay away for just one more game (Saturday). After Saturday I will leave this thread until January 14th. I did notice the game Saturday is going to be on Comcast Sports. I like that. To bad it's a guarantee I will not be able to watch it on January 14th. Stupid Bill Wuerz. Havlat's return: 2 goals so far. Welcome the hell back man.

I think they're just tired. 10 point Minn lead now.

You read my mind; I also thought he was older :D Would love to see him patrolling CF at Wrigley. He played in 96 at the age of 19, and was the youngest player in post season history to homer. I think I knew that, somewhere in the deep recesses of my memory. It was still shocking to see he is only 29 though. If I were Atlanta I'd hold on to him forever.

It doesn't work like that, though. If you allocate so much towards one area, you're taking away some from another. If you can tell me that Marquis' salary could not have been invested into another of need, then I think that has validity. But, it becomes a question does the probable production difference beween Marquis and whomever outweigh the potential improvement of another area that could've been gained thru monetary spending that can't be accomplished b/c of Marquis' salary. The Cubs have to plan for areas that will hopefully be taken over by young, cheap, potentially higher ceiling prospects compared to established veterans that might bring some improvement but nothing that will like sway the outcome of a season. I don't believe that having Marquis over Guzman, Marshall, or whomever will factor much into the Cubs getting or not getting into the players. At the same token, the freed salary might not matter depending on it used. Or whether the Cubs have thrown all notions of having a budget to the wind, which it is starting to look like they have.

Umm yeah, getting beat up here.

It's truly amazing that Andrew Jones is still only 29. Amazing. Amazing. Been around it seems forever. I'd love to have him on the ballclub. Great player.

Yeah, while I usually don't root for the Cowboys, given the Bears tie-breaker situation I would like to see a Saints loss here.

I don't think there's any way Paxson would take a guy like Iverson on this team. He's so far away from what the Bulls are about. Square peg in a round hole. Wouldn't work. Plus he wouldn't help our inside scoring game or lack of team height, which are the deficiencies we are dealing with. It's probably the worst fit imaginable.

All 3 are obviously serious trade bait. Don't mind what anyone says about "untouchables."

Jacque turned out to be a bargain.

His season last year was atypically bad actually. Not sure where he will end up this year. But I'm pretty sure of two things: 1) He'll be better than a 6.02 ERA and a dismal 73 ERA+, and 2) $20m/yr is insanely high for him. Agreed! :lol: LOL, whoops my bad. 3/20 is high :lol: