I'm not sure what you're saying. YOU are using rate stats to say that Clemens is arguably having a better year than Gibson. YOU are using rate stats to say that Clemens is having a better year than Carpenter. I'm telling you that the obsession with rate stats isn't fair, and if you want to use rate stats, then start your campaign for Chad Cordero as the Cy Young winner this year. Clemens' rate stats are better, in part, because he's being coddled. He hasn't finished a game for his team all year. Last Year's NL pitching results and Cy Young Voting Results Jake Peavy 15-8 2.27 R Johnson 16-14 2.60 Ben Sheets 12-14 2.70 Carlos Zambrano 16-8 2.75 Clemens 18-4 2.98 Oliver Perez 12-10 2.98 Carl Pavano 18-8 3.00 Roy Oswalt 20-10 3.49 Cy Young Voting Clemens Johnson Oswalt Schmidt Zambrano Pavano Gagne Lidge Sheets There were FOUR other pitchers in the NL with a better ERA than Clemens last year, yet Clemens won the Cy Young Award. Peavy had a better ERA than ANY of the other pitchers, and wasn't even on the radar for the Cy Young Award. Now, in 2005, when Clemens finally gets the ERA t hing down pat, the award is suddenly ALL about ERA. I don't get it. Again, there is no precedence. A starting pitcher has never finished what he started ZERO times, and still won the Cy Young Award. I don't get it. I think Clemens last year was a mistake, there were better options. As far as Cordero, he has saved 23 runs over an avg. pitcher, lower than Clemens and Carpenter. His DIPS is also lower than Clemens. Btw, the only was of those that is a rate stat is DIPS. Vorp, DIPS, PRAA, and Win Shares are accumulative stats, which favor Clemens despite the 17 IP difference, how is that possible?