RockTheIvy

That's gold Jerry, gold. They should call it ROUNDTINE!

Right :roll: . The man is 32 and keeps himself in excellent condition. Very few people have sharp declines at 32, and those that do aren't nearly as talented as Ichiro. I wonder how many people said Kenny Lofton was due for a sharp decline 6 years ago, or Finley 8 years ago, etc. And those guys aren't as talented as Ichiro. If Ichiro bats .280 next season, then you essentially have Neifi Perez. I'm just saying it's due. It might not happen, but I wouldn't be shocked. You can apply this to every major league player. Barry Bonds might only walk 20 times. ARod might only hit 15 HR's. Pierre might only steal 10 bases. Manny might only drive in 60 runs. Randy Johnson might only strike out 40 guys. I wouldn't bet on any of them happening though. No, the point is that Ichiro's entire offensive value is tied to him hitting .330. He doesn't walk alot, and he doesn't hit for good power. As he ages, he'll slow down and lose bat speed, and all those extra singles he got will dwindle away. Ichiro hitting .280 means he has an OBP/SLG of .330/.390. Abysmal for someone with his salary. I'm not saying he's going to hit .280, but Rocket's point is correct. For someone who's offensive value is defined by his ability to get a bunch of extra singles, it's a smart bet that his decline will be sharper than others. For someone who thinks signing Bradley to be a great idea, I'm hard pressed to understand how you dislike Ichiro? How many times has Ichiro been suspended, sent home or sent to anger management? How dare you talk about chemistry around here, OCF!

I still believe this is all agent BS. If we don't nab him, worse case scenario, we put Walker at 2B, Cedeno at short, trade for Pierre. Pierre Walker Lee (Giles/Dunn/Abreu) Ramirez Barrett Murton Cedeno Still a good lineup, IMO.

Yeah that's all talk. Furcal is good, but he isn't that much better than Jimmy Rollins, and look at what he got. It's not like we're talking about Shawon Dunston or something.

In my opinion, thank God you're not GM of the Cubs. I just wanted to say that ending your posts with "Pastor Tom Spain" is awesome.

Nah I've grown fond of Matt Karchner.

It's not a fair question. You're listing a 2nd option at SS with a 1st option in RF, then a 1st option at SS with a 10th option in RF. To make it an even statement, I go with Furcal and Floyd. [edit - smelling pistakes] No, it is a fair question. Lugo/Giles will probably cost about the same amount as Furcal/Encarnacion. Furcal/Floyd would cost more. Except that with our GM, I think a better question might be Lugo/Encarnacion or Furcal/Encarnacion. I really doubt Hendry will go that hard after Giles.

I feel like I hear this every season :?

Get it right. Its a bandWGN I just wish there was a way to incorporate that sweet "Channel 9" logo in there. Remember that thing? I guess it could be an E? I dunno.

I have a day off today and I drank too much coffee so I am really impatient and bored and wired so I decided to have some fun on Baseball Reference (at ease, ladies). First of all, has anyone ever looked at Gary Matthews' 1984 season? I was 1 and something at the time and only remember weird images from the season, but the dude walked 103 times that season giving him an OBP of .410. This season got me thinking of how many Cubs players in the last 30 years have walked more than 100 times and how many Cubs players have had OBPs of .400 (which seems to be a magic OBP number, kinda like hitting .300). Player/Year 100 Walks .400 OBP ISOP Bill Madlock/1975 0.402 0.048 Bill Madlock/1976 0.412 0.073 Gary Matthews/1984 103 0.41 0.119 Mark Grace/1989 0.405 0.091 Mark Grace/1997 0.409 0.09 Mark Grace/1998 0.401 0.092 Sammy Sosa/2000 0.406 0.086 Sammy Sosa/2001 116 0.437 0.109 Sammy Sosa/2002 103 0.399 0.111 Derrek Lee/2005 0.418 0.083 Cardinals Ted Simmons/1977 0.408 0.09 Keith Hernandez/1979 0.417 0.073 Keith Hernandez/1980 0.408 0.087 Keith Hernandez/1981 0.401 0.095 Keither Hernandez/1982 100 0.397 0.098 Tom Herr/1983 0.403 0.08 Jack Clark/1987 136 0.459 0.173 Gregg Jefferies/1993 0.408 0.066 Ray Lankford/1997 0.411 0.116 Mark McGwire/1998 162 0.47 0.171 Mark McGwire/1999 133 0.424 0.146 Jim Edmonds/2000 103 0.411 0.116 JD Drew/2000 0.401 0.106 Jim Edmonds/2001 0.41 0.106 JD Drew/2000 0.414 0.093 Jim Edmonds/2002 0.42 0.109 Albert Pujols/2003 0.439 0.08 Albert Pujols/2004 0.415 0.084 Scott Rolen/2004 0.409 0.095 Jim Edmonds/2004 101 0.418 0.117 Albert Pujols/2005 0.43 0.1 I think it is interesting to see that in the last 30 years, only 9 times has a Cubs player had an OBP over .400 and only 3 times has a player walked more than 100 times. Compare that to the Cardinals over the same span, who have had a player with an OBP over .400 20 times, and 6 times have had a player walk more than 100 times. They have also had 11 different players have that OBP, whereas there are only 5 different Cubs to have done it. Also note that it took Hall of Fame seasons by Sosa 3 times two times to reach the .400 OBP marks. And, despite Lee's spectacular season, his career high in walks came in 2002. What is the point of all this? I basically wanted to show how little the organization values the walk, as well as on basepercentage. During this time span, the Cards ahve reached the playoffs 9 times. The Cubs have reached it four times ('84, '89, '98, '03). Also note the diffences in Isolated Patience between the Cubs seasons and the Cardinals seasons. A few of the Cubs seasons have been more average driven, meaning that they probably will not sustain that level of on base ability from season to season. Take from this what you will, I just thought it would be interesting to see The Chicago National League Ballclub's appreciation for OnBase Percentage. PS: I hope that code thing worked. I wish I was as savvy as Fred! :lol:

Taking their best years into consideration, I'd give the edge to Gwynn. Gwynn had some unbelievable years. Not saying he was incredibly valuable in those years, but his K totals are insanely low. As far as Ichiro! is concerned, I too believe a lot of his value is tied to his average and his speed. That being said, I think he is a much better hitter than say a Juan Pierre, and if his average was going to fall, it would have done so already. If you could nab Ichiro! on the cheap, I wouldn't complain. But I think the Cubs need a RF that brings power and OBP that are not made by average.

No, mainly because I don't want to deal Z and I don't really want Kearns. I would deal Pie for Dunn though.

What I find promising is his slugging percentage. If he can improve his plate discipline, with his speed and power, he will be very good.

Yeah, I only performed at my 50% projection as well.

But if we sign Furcal, you're not going to sub for him late in games. And if we have Cedeno playing second, I'm not sure if Neifi is better defensively than him. It's just so frustrating. I'm not sure they, the Chubbs management, don't think that Neifi! is better at 2B...which means you are probably right

OOOHHH...I love it when people use the word "groupthink"! It's so obvious we all just get together and come up with mindless "groupthink." Oooh yeah! Hey, gimme some credit here. I almost got my nuts ripped off by this board after I suggested that we should trade CPatt over Burnitz early last year. Look how that turned out. Sometimes this board gets a little hive-minded sometimes is all I'm saying. I don't think it was a good signing, but I'm not calling the season yet either. In fairness, I think you are right.

Just one of the many reason why wins aren't an important metric. However, they are not tottaly usless if used in the context of other variables. Why is it then that sooo many people that are around baseball all the time don't see, what is to me, a very reasonable argument against giving as much credence to the win stat? There are people around here who will say "a win is all that counts", how do you justify that statement when pitchers are so obviously less involved with the stat than other factors in the modern game? I think the idea of a win is difficult because the pitcher is involved with preventing the other team from scoring, and a team wins the game by scoring runs. It is similar, somewhat I guess, to a goalie in hockey or soccer getting credited with a win. But there are so many other factors (ie run support, park effects, defense, "luck") that go into the outcome of a baseball game that you can't use wins to compare pitchers. Many other stats, some even looked at by the "old school" give a much better understanding of how good a pitcher is.

You forgot to replace murton with a lousy vet. You're right. I'm sure Calvin Murray or Trenidad Hubbard could do a much better job in left.

I think there is absolutely no way that this contract can be justified. 5 mil for a bench player over 2 years is ridiculous, especially when there are so many other holes to fill. That being said if Dusty somehow changes his use of Neifi!, and puts him in as a defensive sub in the late innings of close games, I really don't have a problem. This is what the Red Sox did with Pokey Reese, who they signed for a million dollar, 1 year contract. Neifi! has value as a defensive sub, and should be used in that capacity. Hopefully we will only see 150 ABs from Neifi! a year, even if they are some pretty expensive abs.

Actually, "player relations" are one of the few explanations that can be given for re-signing Neifi, unless Hendry really is a 100% complete moron. By all accounts, Aramis Ramirez is an emotionally fragile guy, he was hurt by the departure of Sammy and particularly, Moises Alou. Now he has a countryman on the team in Neifi, and Furcal would complete the Dominican version of the Cub Musketeers. Some of these Caribbean players in the big leagues really struggle with life in The Show, and if it takes a couple compatriots to bring out the best in Aramis, then maybe that's why Hendry brought back Perez. That, and it might help bring in Furcal rather than see him go to the Mets. Makes sense actually--we all know from direct observation that Neifi seems to be everyone's "buddy" on the team, I guess Hendry didn't want to lose that. Crappy justification for the kind of money he paid him, but then, Hendry never has been smart with the wallet. I responded once that you post was well put. But, as I sit here and think about a player who took less money to come to Chicago for a potential bench role (Walker) get treated with disrespect... and as I sit here and think about how Nomar seemed to want to stay in Chicago (quite possibly for non personal reasons, like playing a full year healthy for the wonderful fans of Chicago and attempting to prove he can still be the great player he was) and no one showing any interest whatsoever.... and how the whole Sosa thing went down..... and the unprofessional comments like "I like guys who can catch the ball".... I wonder what some of the other guys on the team think about all of this stuff going on. Walker had to have some friends in that locker room. Maybe Hendry thinks being more upfront with the players and saying cute statements like Ozzie Guillen will help our chances. You are right, this organization treats players the wrong way.

Actually, "player relations" are one of the few explanations that can be given for re-signing Neifi, unless Hendry really is a 100% complete moron. By all accounts, Aramis Ramirez is an emotionally fragile guy, he was hurt by the departure of Sammy and particularly, Moises Alou. Now he has a countryman on the team in Neifi, and Furcal would complete the Dominican version of the Cub Musketeers. Some of these Caribbean players in the big leagues really struggle with life in The Show, and if it takes a couple compatriots to bring out the best in Aramis, then maybe that's why Hendry brought back Perez. That, and it might help bring in Furcal rather than see him go to the Mets. Makes sense actually--we all know from direct observation that Neifi seems to be everyone's "buddy" on the team, I guess Hendry didn't want to lose that. Crappy justification for the kind of money he paid him, but then, Hendry never has been smart with the wallet. Isn't he Furcal's boozing buddy?

How is that line up worse than some of the line ups Baker threw out there last year? Macias and Perez were hitting 1/2 for several days in August and September. I should have prefaced this with the fact that the Cubs have 40 mil to spend, so I guess it should read "most dissapointing" lineup.

Now that we know that Hendry doesn't share many of our feelings about Neifi!, I thought it would be interesting to see where people thought Hendry was going this offseason. What I don't want to see, but fear I might is a lineup of: Furcal Neifi Lee Aram Jaque Jones Juan Encarnacion Murton Barrett I could easily see Hendry signing Jones and Juan and calling them upgrades. I honestly am so shocked by the Neifi! signing that I have no idea where Hendry is going this offseason and no faith.

Christ almighty. This is ridiculous. So what are we doing now with the infield? I think part of the reason they signed him is because he's drinking buddies with Furcal, but watch, he'll sign with the Mets, and then we get Neifi! starting at short. Sweet. You are 0-2 in my book, Jimbo.

I'd agree with you, if I thought that Pie was close to major league ready. I would like to see Pie spend all of next year in the minors, and then see if he is ready to start '07 in the majors, if not, he could be a call up. Pie has all the tools to be a great baseball player, he just needs more seasoning. That being said, Preston Wilson is not a bad CF offensively. I think a one year deal, similar to the Burnitz deal, with an option in 07, might work out for the Cubs. If, as Hoops and Cuse have said, the Cubs get a serious impact bat for RF (of the Giles/Abreu type, not the Jaque Jones type). As far as Cpatt, I wish he could play up to his talent level in Chicago, but I just don't think it is going to happen. I think, if you are JH, you have to improve CF and under no circumstances could you march out the same player who just had an absolutely miserable season. Also, something to remember, Patterson is no longer that cheap. I don't have the exact figures, but he might make 2 million this year through arbitration. That would be very similar to a Neifi! contract, and would be seriously ugly if he performed like last year. My personal CF wish is Mike Cameron. But I know Hendry has a crush on Preston, and, as long as he plays CF, I think I could live with him. You forgot that he also mentioned Adam Greenberg in there - who I'd rather see in CF than Pie or Wilson. Not that I want him to be there, but it'd be a better move than either of those two (there are a bunch of others I'd rather have, of course). You think Greenberg would do better than Wilson?