brinoch

This is what happens when everyone knows you're not going to offer him a contract, even though he's under your control and will lose an arbitration hearing.

He could support it but he doesn't feel like it. A luxury you have when you fool yourself into thinking you're smarter than you are is never having to prove you're right nor accept you're wrong - and if you come out looking like an idiot you don't have to care because you're a genius and they're the idiot, Jesus! Meph takes to the Bart Simpson "I can do that but I don't wanna!" school of proof. You may not like Meph. You may think he's arrogant. But you may not make personal attacks against him. He is entitled to his opinion. Just like you.

Given Kosuke's home park dimensions in Japan, I don't think 20 HR's is unrealistic. Wrigley is shallower in the power alleys, longer along the lines, and the Cubs get to play several games in bandboxes like GAB.

Nah. We already have a better and cheaper version in Murton.

Too bad I don't work for the Cubs in their media relations department. I'm really good at beating the crap out of outlets when they offer completely inaccurate reporting.

=D> I'm not on the 'roids. I'm just pointing out what is pretty easily possible, based on my own experience. I keep records and spreadsheets of my progress in weight, body fat %, # of reps, weight lifted, and strength gain because I'm just that way. I like to be able to quantify things.

When you break the language rules I get to pick the lamest possible replacement insult to make you look like a doofus. Oh, and you get a warning and might get banned.

Baloney. I work 10-11 hours a day at my desk with an additional 1 hour commute each day. I find time to go to the gym 3 times a week. It means I don't get home until after 9:30 PM those days, but I still do it.

I don't know about that. These people are going from bulked up athlete to extremely bulked up athlete with dramatic changes, not from "casual soccer player" to bulked up person. Look at Sosa's muscles here, he looks like he already has solid defined muscles. The type of muscles that have been bulked up from at least a year or two of solid weight training. Since about 1995-1996, his body frame exploded. Its not like he went from couch potato to working out 5 days a week around that timeframe. He went from conditioned muscular athlete to humongous bulked up beast. Just my opinion. Anyone who entertains the idea that Sosa didn't use steroids is fooling themselves. Just because some guy went around and talked to BALCO, a Mets clubhouse attendant and a handful of players and didn't name Sosa doesn't mean he is any less likely to have done steroids. In fact, a member of the team Sosa played on during the PEAK of his alleged steroid years mentioned witnessing multiple teammates inject steroids. Why didn't he name the players? Maybe he was trying to protect the integrity of a big named player who set numerous records the year before? Just speculation. I'm not saying that Sosa did or did not use steroids. I don't know. There's certainly no evidence, other than speculation, that he did. What I'm saying is that I built a significant amount of muscle during a time period equivalent to an offseason. I think a player who was in good shape -- but not physically huge -- could add 15-20 pounds during an offseason if he wanted to. I did it and I'm in my 30's. These guys are most certainly stronger in their arms and chest than I was, but I was significantly stronger in my legs than they would be. They can throw a 90 mph fastball. I can kick a ball 60+ mph. My legs are a lot stronger and bigger now than they were 5 months ago.

I'd kick the tires, but probably not buy.

I believe we have repeated posts (including some by me) acknowledging that he's injured and rehabbing. Indeed, we even note that he may never be an effective pitcher again. Do you have any inside information that indicates that he won't ever pitch again? Do you know that he is forever going to be a Marquis-esque pitcher? Because I'm tired of ridiculous blanket statement posts that refuse to acknowledge that Prior might indeed return to form and be an effective pitcher. Simply put: you have no idea whether or not he will pitch again or be effective. Good business decisions are made without emotion or anger and take into account your organization's needs. Given that all baseball teams need good pitching, and Prior might be a good pitcher, simply tendering Prior an offer and taking him to arbitration is a good decision. You are playing for more time that allows you to negotiate a contract, trade him, or win the arbitration case (which the Cubs surely would do). Prior was under the Cubs' control for 2008; letting him to another team for nothing is a bad business decision, based on the knowledge we have.

I'm glad Prior's not on the list. I think well of him as a person. And it was still a bad decision to let him walk.

I am 32 years old. I designed what I would call a modest workout program for myself this April (around a 2 hour workout 3 times a week plus playing soccer on Sundays). When I started, I was in decent running shape for soccer, but betrayed by several years of playing goalie -- I weighed 175 with about 24% body fat. In 5 months I was at 170 with a 13% body fat. I gained more than 14 pounds of muscle in 5 months. If I had more time and a trainer to really help focus me, I could have gained more muscle than that. My arms, chest and legs are noticeably larger. Any baseball player who wasn't bulked up already could easily undertake this relatively easy regimen and see similar results. All it takes is a little time. And in the offseason, they all have plenty of time.

Prior being on the list makes me think less of him as a person, but doesn't influence my opinion regarding whether or not he should have been tendered a contract.

There can never be enough Geovany Soto posts.

And this is a problem how? Since I think pitcher wins are the most useless stat ever, I won't use them. Team wins, on the other hand, I care about. I would have no problem dividing a pot of $595K per team win among the team's starting pitchers. That would mean for a 90 win team, I'd pay the starting pitchers a total of $53.5M, or about $10.7M per starter. Given that we currently pay a combined $36.7M to a stable of Zambrano, Lilly, Hill, Marquis and Dempster (presuming he starts), this isn't far out of line from where the Cubs will be in a year or two when Hill is eligible for FA. Oh, and I forgot to mention, Marquis and Dempster are terrible starters and truly need to be replaced with better pitchers.

I think my opinion on this is fairly well known. A poor decision, in my opinion.

Watch the Padres sign him. Wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Hard to disagree. He is also coming off a broken wrist, no? He was much better after the broken wrist than before. Post broken wrist he was hitting near peak levels. 8 homers in August IIRC. He was on the calcium.

Because you have no guarantee that he'll sign with your team while trading for him gives you the right to do as you please for 1 year. You just mentioned the Sox and Yanks, only one can get him. Sure, but in the mean time, his value to the Cubs has gone down. Let's say you are Cashman and I am Epstein. We both want him. What are you going to give the Cubs for a guy who you know will likely be non-tendered? I'm not going to give up much at all because if he hits free agency, I can make a run at the guy. Meanwhile, the Cubs get NOTHING for letting Mark Prior go. NOTHING AT ALL. Bad deal. It's not like the Cubs never pay people to rehab. For a team which paid Ryan Dempster, Scott Williamson, and Wade Miller to rehab and Rusch to sit at home to non-tender a pitcher of Prior's potential is foolish. I don't care about how Prior feels. I don't care if he hates the Cubs. What I do care about is that he wants a big contract and I want to win the World Series. To get that big contract, he needs to pitch and pitch well. If he does pitch well, it'll certainly be better than what we saw from Wade Miller last year. Or Jason Marquis. Or Ryan Dempster. Or even Sean Marshall. Prior pitching well means that the Cubs have an additional above average pitcher in their rotation, and that'll get them closer to the World Series. I let his coming free agency sort itself out after next season. Winning can salve a lot of wounds. And if the wounds are irrevocable, he walks. So what? There's an old saying: cross that bridge when you get to it (I'd also say that don't borrow trouble also applies). Don't play the $3M game for nothing game with me, either. Seriously, that's crazy talk. The Cubs have plenty of money, and could certainly carry Prior's contract cost. It's not like they can't afford it. So by claiming I can't say tossing away 3 million dollars plus the cost of rehab as part of my argument because you think 3 million dollars is nothing to a team? You actually think "chemistry" will help turn Prior into a Cub if A goes right, then B then C then D? I understand signing and then trading him but to just pay to rehab....and let's not forget, Prior may ask for a raise in arby too and get it, and to lose him anyways is just wasting money. Also, what guarantee do you have that he will be an effective pitcher? How did that work for Miller who also had a shoulder injury? Did he get his velocity back? If Prior is throwing under 92 what good is he to the Cubs in August or September if the Cubs are in a pennant race? Will the Cubs have the room to let him work the kinks out if he ever does come back that early? All I can see from posters that want Prior to stay is that he'll regain his form and be back to normal and make 15 to 20 starts and what I'm saying is not logical? I think that's just wishful thinking for a player you guys love and hope he reverts to his old form somehow. I like Prior and I'd LOVE to have him back to pitch like he did but imo he will never be that pitcher again and I'm not deluding myself into thinking he will. Does he have potential, sure since he was a heck of a pitcher but I do not think he will be an effective pitcher in 2008 if he pitches at all and imo he wouldn't sign with the Cubs (for 2009 and beyond) again if he did regain a partial amount of his old form. I'm not saying that the $3M might be a bad investment. It might very well be so. In the context of the Cubs' budget, the ~$3M for Prior isn't a lot of money. It's like 2.4% of a $125M budget. While that money might be wasted, it might also be a tremendous investment which leads to a bunch of wins. I think the risk is worth the potential reward. Second, Prior is very unlikely to get a raise in arbitration; he didn't pitch at all last year. More than likely, he'll make less than he did in '07. My point is that the Cubs have lots of money, and they've taken risks on pitchers in the past -- and Prior's upside is so much greater than Miller or Dempster it's not even funny. Why let him go for nothing? As for the chemistry... we don't know whether or not he will return. What I'm saying is that the Cubs shouldn't make a decision on whether or not to tender him a contract on that basis. They should tender him a contract based on the chance that he'll return to form. Or, perhaps they can throw him into a deal and get an upgrade somewhere else. Cutting him now means you get nothing. Cuse, you're certainly entitled to your opinion on whether or not he'll regain his form. So am I. But neither one of us are doctors and knows whether or not he will regain that form. I could throw all your questions right back at you -- what guarantee do you have that he'll suck, what guarantee do you have that he won't be incredible, etc. The point is that no one knows how he'll be. I'm willing to take a small gamble, in financial terms, that he'll be able to come back and be an effective pitcher. Actually, I think it's a no-brainer.

Because you have no guarantee that he'll sign with your team while trading for him gives you the right to do as you please for 1 year. You just mentioned the Sox and Yanks, only one can get him. Sure, but in the mean time, his value to the Cubs has gone down. Let's say you are Cashman and I am Epstein. We both want him. What are you going to give the Cubs for a guy who you know will likely be non-tendered? I'm not going to give up much at all because if he hits free agency, I can make a run at the guy. Meanwhile, the Cubs get NOTHING for letting Mark Prior go. NOTHING AT ALL. Bad deal. It's not like the Cubs never pay people to rehab. For a team which paid Ryan Dempster, Scott Williamson, and Wade Miller to rehab and Rusch to sit at home to non-tender a pitcher of Prior's potential is foolish. I don't care about how Prior feels. I don't care if he hates the Cubs. What I do care about is that he wants a big contract and I want to win the World Series. To get that big contract, he needs to pitch and pitch well. If he does pitch well, it'll certainly be better than what we saw from Wade Miller last year. Or Jason Marquis. Or Ryan Dempster. Or even Sean Marshall. Prior pitching well means that the Cubs have an additional above average pitcher in their rotation, and that'll get them closer to the World Series. I let his coming free agency sort itself out after next season. Winning can salve a lot of wounds. And if the wounds are irrevocable, he walks. So what? There's an old saying: cross that bridge when you get to it (I'd also say that don't borrow trouble also applies). Don't play the $3M game for nothing game with me, either. Seriously, that's crazy talk. The Cubs have plenty of money, and could certainly carry Prior's contract cost. It's not like they can't afford it.

Well, if I'm the Yankees or Red Sox, I'm going to give him a call ASAP. You know, when there is a likelihood that a player will be non-tendered, his value is pretty limited. Why trade one of your players/prospects and pay a contract when you can probably get him for just a contract?

I agree. I'd tender him an offer with the intention of taking Prior to arbitration. That way, I'd buy myself a couple of months time to work out a deal or make a decision on a trade. I would also have more than a month to evaluate his recovery from surgery.

lol

Okay, I've seen several "clever" uses of Fukudome's name to clearly end around both the board's guidelines and the word censor. This is a family site, and the language used should meet that standard. It's not like everyone doesn't know this. So, here's your obligatory blanket warning. Any additional postings in this manner will result in warnings and bannings. Got it? Good.