Outshined_One

That recent HBP was unintentional, imo.

He was showing up Bush. I have a feeling he'll be getting plunked later in the season or next year.

The problem with that is it would likely involve inserting Henry Blanco into the lineup. Holy crap that was a shot.

Well, at least this won't be a total humiliation.

Following never being used during his callup earlier in the season, Wuertz has now been in for relief work seemingly every single day since coming back. Okay then!

It's clear Z didn't have his best stuff today. Dusty's probably under the impression the Cubs are still in the thick of the playoff hunt.

He's getting his strikeouts up, which was a problem for him in previous starts in AA. I have faith he'll adjust. He might be well-served with starting in AA again next season.

He got it off in plenty of time, too. Now if only he could hit...

I'm not the only one who finds the grey pants/grey tops to be a weird look, am I?

:( He was doing so well!

I'll get to the fun stuff in a bit. I'll address a quick point, then come back to this topic later to address what was discussed in this thread. Moore's problematic. As a third baseman, his value isn't too bad overall. 20-25 HRs isn't much of a stretch, walks at a decent rate, and can steal a few bases. There are plenty of third basemen in the league worse than that. However, his defense is what could really hurt him. Apparently he's been improving on it recently, but if he can't stick at 3B and will be forced to move into the OF or 1B, his value plummets. All of a sudden, his offense doesn't look quite as good. If he can stick at 3B, I like his chances.

Box Scores Iowa won 5-1 Box Score CF F. Pie 2/4, 2 R, RBI, 2B (25) 2B B. Coats 2/4, R, RBI RF M. Restovich 1/4, RBI, 2B (24) 1B M. Hoffpauir 1/3, RBI, 2 K 3B C. McGehee 2/4, R, RBI, 2B (22), HR (8) C J. Reyes 0/2, BB, PO (2B), HBP SP L. Walrond 7 IP, 5 H, 1 ER, 6/1 K/BB, 8-7 GO-FO West Tenn won 7-3 in the 11th! Box Score CF C. Walker 0/4, BB, 2 K 2B E. Patterson 1/5, R, RBI, HR (8), K RF/LF R. Lewis 1/3, 2 BB, R, CS (3) C J. Fox 1/5, 4 K 3B S. Moore 0/3, 2 BB, R, 2 K 1B B. Sing 2/5, 2 R, 2 RBI, HR (5), 2 K P B. Brownlie 1/2, R, RBI, HR (1), K SP S. Gallagher 6 IP, 2 H, 1 ER, 8/5 K/BB, WP, 6-2 GO-FO, E (1, pickoff) RP T. Atlee 1.1 scoreless, 1 H, 1/2 K/BB, 2-1 GO-FO Daytona lost 5-1 Box Score 2B J. Simokaitis 1/4, RBI, K SS J. Mota 1/3, BB, 2B (6) DH M. Craig 0/4, K RF R. Harvey 0/4, 2 K C J. Muyco 0/4 PH N. Spears 0/1, K SP B. Petrick 5.1 IP, 8 H, 5 ER, 1/1 K/BB, 3 HR, 7-7 GO-FO RP G. Johnson 1.2 scoreless, 2 H, 2/0 K/BB, WP, 1-1 GO-FO Peoria with a day off. Boise won 9-3 CF M. Camp 3/5, R, Assist (2B) C M. Mercedes 2/5, R LF T. Colvin 1/5, R, RBI, K 3B J. Lansford 2/4, 2 R, RBI 1B R. Canzler 2/3, BB, R, 4 RBI, 2B (15), HR (10), SB (4), E (8, fielding) RF A. Joseph 0/4, 2 K 2B S. Clevenger 0/3, BB, R, E (9, throw) SP J. Pina 5 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 1 ER, 1/2 K/BB, HR, 5-9 GO-FO RP A. Maestri 3 IP, 6 H, 1 ER, 1/0 K/BB, 7-0 GO-FO Mesa with a day off. OVERALL: 3-1

Ask him what his favorite memory was while he was with the Cubs. Also, if you can prod him about stats versus tools, that'd be most welcome. :D

I think you're missing the point on Ks, however. Strikeouts are NOT indicative of plate discipline or patience. If we treat them the same as any other out (which I do), then a strikeout has the same predictive power as a groundout. Strikeouts rarely have any predictive power regarding a guy's potential success in the major leagues. Asking a guy to decrease his Ks could easily produce similar results to Neifi Perez and Juan Pierre. K'ing less does not indicate a player's future success. Moreover, there are plenty of guys in the minors who K a lot and still have found success because of the number of walks they take. As long as you can walk at a reasonable rate, what the heck does it matter if all of your outs come from Ks? If you want a better indicator of why guys with high K rates seemingly flame out more often than those who do not can be traced right back to their IsoD. The reason why I'm so down on Ryan Harvey is because his BB rate is absolutely abysmal; not because he strikes out so often. This is why IsoD is so important in projecting a guy down the line. If a guy shows the ability to take walks on a regular basis, then it's clear he has some semblance of a clue at the plate. Eric Patterson, in my mind, has put up a respectable IsoD (along with a few other stats) that shows he has good pitch recognition skills at a level with relatively advanced pitching. We've seen plenty of pitchers in recent years come straight from AA and succeed in the major leagues. He's faced plenty of pitchers who are good enough to come up to the majors and succeed during his time there. To me, it's really hard to try to expect some level of consistency out of stats that are so heavily tied into batting average, which I believe we both agree is not something that's easy to predict as a prospect advances through the minors. Cripes, look at the studies on the career numbers of BABIP regarding pitchers. Basically, only the really elite guys have been able to show some degree of control over their BABIP levels by sustaining unusually low levels for a short period of time (Maddux between 1992 and 1996, for example). You're looking at statistics that do not act as effective predictive stats for how any given prospect will do in the majors. They tend to be mostly based on luck. Eric Patterson's plate discipline is a heck of a lot better than most of the other guys in this system. He has much better walk rates than other notables such as Felix Pie, Tyler Colvin, and Mark Reed. If he knows how to take a walk and is able to hit line drives on a regular enough basis when he makes contact, then I think his future outlook is good. I don't think he'll become a superstar, but I think he'll turn out well enough to justify a starting role at 2B for much of his career.

So this is a more general question, but it seems like a decent place to ask it. Can plate discipline really be taught to players at the minor league level and up? My brother believes players are too ingrained in their approach by the time they reach professional baseball (minors on up) to undergo radical change. I don't follow minor league baseball enough to know if low OBP guys commonly learn to take walks, or if that's a rarity. Sammy Sosa was one of the few guys who was able to really change his profile to the point where he became a consistent OBP threat. It's incredibly hard to change a guy's profile to the point of turning him into a high OBP player. Minor adjustments can be made, but I think it would just require re-teaching a guy everything he's ever known and learned about hitting to get to that point. Then again, I think it would easily be possible to turn a High OBP guy into a Low OBP guy given the proper adjustments.

See, I'm much higher on Patterson than this for a number of reasons. -Ks are meaningless when evaluating a hitter's future success. I've finally come around on this point and it took a member of the Sabr Society to beat me over the head with a number of studies in order to get here. The strikeout is just another out, nothing more, nothing less. BB/K is not a good indicator of a guy's plate discipline. This is why I've been harping on IsoD quite a bit lately. -He has a very healthy LD% (~19.23%), especially against RHPs (~21.6%). When he makes contact, he's getting a good number of line drives, which will do wonders for his ability to hit for extra bases and possibly even HRs as he fills out. I like that. -His IsoD is currently at .069, which is a tick above average and fairly reasonable. Granted, he's not Adam Dunn or Barry Bonds at the plate, but he draws a reasonable enough number of walks to make me think he has a clue at the plate, unlike a number of other guys in this organization. -His SB% is 77%, which is pretty good for some one down in the minor leagues. When he steals, there's a pretty good chance he won't run himself into an out. He's just above the 75% mark, which strikes me as positive. Bottom line is, his August and July have hurt his batting average, but he's been decidedly unlucky during those stretches (.288 BABIP in July, .111 BABIP in August). His numbers are pretty much in line with BABIP for the season and it's not like he's been striking out more. Trust me on this one; he'll be a good addition to this team in 2007 or 2008. :D

Isolated incidents don't prove a point. That team would have never made it to the NLCS if they sacrificed offense for defense.

Good speed and awareness on the basepaths, above average D at 2B, reasonable OBP/IsoD, and decent power are the reasons why people like him. He still has a few kinks to work out of his game, so I'd expect him to be in AAA for a reasonable portion of next season. If he reaches his ceiling, he'll be a solid guy to have in the lineup. That's a good prospect, imo.

On the rare occasion at Wisconsin football games when they manage to get a split wave off (after a normal one, slow one, fast one, and reverse one), you see that happen. It's a pretty cool sight, imo.

Hendry would go out and pick up a bunch of guys who have high OBPs...but only thanks to their high batting averages.

I'd throw Renshaw and Bernard (who reportedly was hitting high 90s on his fastball) on this list. It'd be nice to know more about guys like Carrillo, Walters, Pina and Hernandez, though. I like the numbers they've put up, but have no idea if they have the stuff or potential to match them.

Remember when I was nagging everyone about why they didn't have Veal in their top 10 lists? :D NOW who's laughing?????

Box Scores Iowa lost 10-7 Box Score CF F. Pie 1/5, RBI, 2B (24), 2 K LF L. Montanez 0/5, 2 K 2B M. Fontenot 1/4 RF M. Restovich 1/5, R 3B C. McGehee 1/3, BB, 2 R SS/2B B. Coats 3/4, R, 2 RBI, K, 2 SB (16) C G. Soto 2/4, R, RBI, K PH M. Hoffpauir 0/0, RBI PH J. Reyes 1/1, RBI SP J. Williams 6 IP, 7 H, 3 ER, 4/1 K/BB, 7-7 GO-FO RP A. Shipman 1 scoreless, 2 H, 2-1 GO-FO RP A. Mendez .2 perfect, 2/0 K/BB West Tenn lost 5-0 Box Score CF C. Walker 0/3, 2 BB 2B E. Patterson 1/5 1B R. Lewis 2/4, K 3B S. Moore 1/3, BB C J. Fox 0/4, K RF M. Negron 1/4, 2B (15), E (2, throw) PH B. Sing 0/1 SP JR Mathes 6 IP, 9 H, 4 ER, 5/1 K/BB, HR, 11-2 GO-FO RP L. Holdzkom 2 IP, 1 H, 1 ER, 1/1 K/BB, 5-0 GO-FO Daytona won 3-2 Box Score 2B N. Spears 1/4, BB, R SS J. Mota 1/4, 2 K, E (14, fielding) DH M. Craig 1/2, 2 BB, R RF R. Harvey 2/4, R, RBI, K SP C. Perez 5 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 4/2 K/BB, 2 WP, 6-4 GO-FO Peoria lost 7-1 Box Score CF D. Gregg 0/4, BB, K DH R. Malone 0/5, 3 K RF/LF J. Valdez 0/4, 3 K 1B R. Norwood 1/3, BB, 2B (21) 2B R. Chirinos 2/4 LF A. Garcia 0/3 RF Y. Carter 0/1, K SS K. Reynolds 2/3, BB, R, K SP T. Blackford 3.1 IP, 10 H, 7 ER, 1/0 K/BB, WP, HBP, 5-4 GO-FO, E (4, pickoff) RP M. Avery 1 perfect, 1-2 GO-FO Boise won 6-0 Box Score CF M. Camp 1/4, R, 2 SB (12) LF T. Colvin 2/3, R, RBI 3B J. Lansford 0/2, BB, RBI 1B R. Canzler 2/4, 2 R, 2 RBI, 2B (14), HR (9) RF A. Joseph 0/4 DH E. Puello 2/3, BB, RBI SS P. Lopez 1/4, R, 2B (2) SP F. Jimenez Angulo 6 scoreless, 3 H, 2/1 K/BB, HBP, 10-6 GO-FO RP J. Papelbon 3 scoreless, 2 H, 2/0 K/BB, 5-2 GO-FO Mesa lost 12-3 Box Score 2B V. Heredia 1/4, BB, RBI, K, SB (20), E (10, fielding) SS N. Samson 0/2, BB, K, CS (1) PH/SS C. Valentin 0/1, RBI CF D. Rundle 2/3, 2B (4), 3B (2), K, HBP PH/1B L. Murphy 0/1, K DH C. Andersen 2/2, R, HBP PH/DH W. Inoa 1/1 LF C. Gilbert 0/4, K 3B F. Tirado 1/3, R, 2B (1), E (5, fielding) PH L. Rosario 0/1, K SP J. Ceda 3 scoreless, 2 H, 4/0 K/BB, 2-1 GO-FO RP R. Hernandez 1.2 scoreless, 2 H, WP, 1-4 GO-FO (allowed 3 inherited runners) OVERALL: 2-4

I'll take QB Byron Leftwich, Jacksonville.

Updated once again: QB Carson Palmer Tom Brady Michael Vick Daunte Culpepper Marc Bulger Donovan McNabb Peyton Manning Matt Hasselbeck Eli Manning Jake Delhomme Trent Green Drew Brees WR Marvin Harrison Anquan Boldin Randy Moss Hines Ward Larry Fitzgerald Terrell Owens Chris Chambers Steve Smith Chad Johnson Santana Moss Torry Holt Roy Williams Reggie Wayne Darrell Jackson Donald Driver Joe Horn Plaxico Burress Andre Johnson Joey Galloway Reggie Brown Deion Branch Lee Evans TJ Houshmandzadeh Javon Walker Nate Burleson Keenan McCardell Drew Bennett Derrick Mason Laveraneus Coles RB LaDanian Tomlinson Clinton Portis Ronnie Brown Kevin Jones LaMont Jordan Domanick Davis Tiki Barber Julius Jones Steven Jackson Cadillac Williams Shaun Alexander Rudi Johnson Edgerrin James Larry Johnson Willis McGahee Brian Westbrook Willie Parker Corey Dillon Tatum Bell Reggie Bush Deuce McAllister Joseph Addai Jamal Lewis Chester Taylor Reuben Droughns Warrick Dunn Cedric Benson Thomas Jones Frank Gore Ron Dayne LenDale White DeShaun Foster Laurence Maroney Mike Bell TE Antonio Gates Jeremy Shockey Tony Gonzalez Todd Heap Jason Witten Alge Crumpler Randy McMichael Heath Miller DEF Chicago Bears Pittsburgh Steelers NY Giants Seattle Seahawks