UMFan83

Maybe not impressive but I think they are a lot better as a whole then this years. Buerhle/Schilling/Smoltz/Westbrook (4 random pitchers) >> Zito, Schmidt, Meche, Lilly

a) I said that there was a chance that a lot of these players would be locked up before they ever hit FA b) I never endorsed either side of the question...I just wanted to throw out a hypothetical situation and see what people thought c) The starting crop next year looks a HELL of a lot better then this years "led" by Zito (grossly overrated), Schmidt (injuries, lost velocity, old), and Meche (still don't completely understand why he was valued so high)

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2000/04/2007-free-agents.html Thats where I got my info....says Burrell is a FA after 2007....could be a mistake though

What do you guys think Church could put up in a full season? maybe something like .280/.360/.450/.810? Is that reasonable?

Would you have rather done what we did this year (overpay to sign "top" FAs in a very weak class) or would have rather the Cubs come out, make a few minor moves, hope that Prior gets healthy, and basically tell the fans that our best chance to win a World Series is in 2008 and that they are 'building' for it? Look at the FA class next offseason: 1B: Mike Sweeney 2B: Castillo, M. Giles, Kent SS: M. Young, C. Guillen, Uribe 3B: A. Rodriguez (potentially, not likely) C: Lo Duca, Posada, I. Rodriguez OF: Abreu, M. Bradley, Burrell, Byrnes, Dunn, Dye, Hunter, A. Jones, Rowand, Ichiro, V. Wells, Wilkerson, Bonds SP: Buehrle, Colon, Garcia, Livan Hernandez, Jennings, R. Johnson, Lieber, Pinero, Rogers, Schilling, Smoltz, Westbrook RP: Tons Yes, that class isn't exactly 'loaded' but there are a ton more options to spend money on, and since the market is more diluted the prices would be more reasonable IMO. Also to note, a lot of these players will never see FA as they will be locked up before the end of the year. But you gotta think that the class would have given us a much better chance of winning in 2008. I dunno, just a hypothetical question to think about.

The Tommie Harris thing is what killed my spirit. I just don't know how good our D is going to be without him in there. The good thing is we have depth. But depth can make up for Tank Johnson or even Alex Brown. Depth cannot make up for Tommie Harris.

The Saints are a nonissue. Carolina has no chance because after today they'll be a game behind Atlanta, the Giants and Philly and will have lost to all three, not because of any of their remaining schedule. Weinke sacked hahahahahahahaha this team blows so much Hmm, at least you have the Cubs? Crap, sorry man :( From a Bears fan perspective I'm excited about a Carolina-less playoffs however.

Why the hell is Jacksonville so rediculously inconsistant.

Can someone tell me what happened with Larry Johnson? I heard he went down with an injury...

I guarentee you this deal 'magically' still gets done. As you guys know, agents and GMs often use the media for 'leverage' in their negotiations.

Unless they put him on the IR, I'd imagine they won't really have a good sense of things for a few weeks. Vasher's hamstring is getting better, but it sure doesn't sound like he'll play Monday night. Nor should he. Yes but they said he was going to Dallas or something to check out his hammy, did they ever have any news after that?

They are reporting on Fox's Pregame show that they have learned that if Grossman falters in the first half, Griese will come in. And not just for the rest of the game, but they will make the change for the rest of the season. Basically, Grossman is on a half by half leash right now....

I think it's a given at this point that Floyd will be on the team next year. He's from Chicago and Hendry has a mancrush on the guy. I'm still wondering what Hendry has up his sleeve because even with a Floyd addition I don't think this team is strong enough to compete for a World Series. I don't think winning the World Series is on Hendry's radar, if you caught him in a moment of honesty. He could save his job with a miracle Wild Card appearance, and I believe that's more along the lines of where his sights are set. Floyd's last year of playing regularly was 2005, where he put up 34 HRs, somewhere in the neighborhood of a .360 OBP in 150 games. I guess the plan would be to use Murton to keep Floyd fresh in LF then. Pie would be the CF, with Soriano in RF. Assuming Hendry didn't also go after some kind of CF option. Seriously, the offseason spending spree is up to 305.5 Million and he's hoping for a MIRACLE wild card appearance? The Cardinals won 83 games last year and won the WS. It's not just on Hendry's radar, it's the goal of the organization. I find that difficult to believe frankly. This team isn't close to a World Series team. I chose not to believe Hendry doesn't know this, but rather that he is finally able to spend like the Cubs were able to all along, and he's just trying to save his job to fight further in the coming years. What the Cardinals did last year was a gross aberration. Rarely if ever been done before, and there's no reason to think it's going to be happening regularly. I don't know of anyone out there who is seriously expecting to win World Series rings with .500 ballclubs as a matter of course. Yes but I don't think Hendry is aiming for a Wild Card appearence. His goal is to build a WS team, but making sure its good enough to at least make a Wild Card. Unfortunately hes failed IMO.

Why are they at least a .500 team. So far no one has been able to really prove that the Cubs have improved their 2 biggest problems last year much at all.

Might as well trade off Marshall and Mateo too since we won't be needed them anytime soon since we have like 8 mediocre veterans ahead of them

You're right they could easily be a .450 team.

Thats a nice signing. I'm amazed that a team was able to sign a player for under $5 million

It only dosent have substance because it cant be put into numbers? There was a lot more than dumb loses, these were losses because they didnt care. you only have to be 4 year old to seet they didnt care about if they won or loss. it also didnt hurt that the idiot manager we had has no idea how to manage unless there is a roided up slugger on the team. Yup when teams lose they don't care, when they win they have so much heart. The problem with the Marlins when they started out 10 games under .500 was that they simply didn't care. Good thing they got that old fart Jack McKeon to ensure that the team started caring, otherwise they wouldn't have made that World Series run. The 2006 Cubs didn't win because they weren't good....they couldn't get on base and gave up a lot of runs, not because they didn't care.

And in the middle you would complain hendry didnt do enough and we run les waldrond out there to get hammered by the Cards Crap sorry. I forgot Les Waldron was the next best option for the team and not people like Prior, Marshall, Marmol, Mateo, Guzman, Ryu, etc etc etc So instead give it to a 35 year old who just got off a career year, really smart there. He has a career OBP of .354 and a career OPS of just below .800. His career year was a step up from an otherwise solid career. His second best year he put up .286/.364/.484. Derosa's second best year (over 100 games)? .263/.316/.383 Im not taking last year by itself, barrett has gotten better and better in the OBP year after year, im sure you saw that when you looked up the stats, he has had a OBP of .337-.345 and .368 the past 3 years. Won't argue that, but your original argument said something about 'adding Barretts OBP' to the team as if we didn't already have his .368 OBP when we were last in the league in OBP. So unless he hits his career high in OBP, he's going to actually be a downgrade to the teams OBP next year. yes they were bad but the 2006 cubs did not care, The problem with the cubs in 06 was attitude. when you have players saying we would just role over and take the beating means they dont care. of course there is no way to find this out because there are no stats but im willing to bet the cubs lost 10+ games they couldve easily won if they didnt bend over and take it. You wont have Neifi Perez making 2 errors on a sac fly or bunting for 2 outs with runners on in the 9th. the cubs are better just because we dont have Mabry and perez starting everyday No offense, but that argument doesn't really have any substance. You can't measure attitude, and while things may have snowballed last year, there is no way of proving that or quantifying it with some sort of number. Everyone loses dumb games from time to time. The 2006 Cubs didn't win because they had were last in the league in OBP and scored very few runs, while their starting pitching did not put up numbers anywhere near average. It is my believe that the Cubs did not address these issues enough to contend for anything other then a .500 record next season.

A lot of the posters here have a certain mindset on how they want a team built because they think its the best way to build a successful winning team. Needless to say, our GM has pretty much gameplanned completely opposite from this mindset, and as such as pretty critical. I think that the key here is that many posters have a strong opinion on what is best. Therefore when someone else doesn't do it the same way, emotion takes over. We saw it last offseason with Jones. At the beginning there was outrage but slowly the better and more moderate commetns take over. Best thing is to not judge based on initial impressions Yeah, but what is "best" in most people's minds is to pick up each and every top free agent for less than market value. It's not reasonable to start with. Not necessarily...a lot of people would be thrilled to trade for Ryan Church, a mostly unproven player with good plate discipline. Also, Soriano was regarded as the top FA for everyone, and the Cubs picked him up, and a lot of posters would have went other routes.

It's still not anywhere close to league average. And since their starting pitching is still below league average, thats not going to cut it.

A lot of the posters here have a certain mindset on how they want a team built because they think its the best way to build a successful winning team. Needless to say, our GM has pretty much gameplanned completely opposite from this mindset, and as such as pretty critical.

No offense meant, but why can't this go into the other Dunn thread(s)?

You honestly think, as it stands now (thats for wolf :wink: ) the Cubs are a 3rd place team? Yup, if that. The Cubs have done very little to address the glaring weaknesses that made them fail in 2006 (and 2005) including OBP and starting pitching in general. Neifi Perez - .266 OBP, 236 AB's with the Cubs Juan Pierre - .330 OBP, 699 AB's with the Cubs John Mabry - .283 OBP, 210 AB's with the Cubs Ronny Cedeno - .271 OBP, 534 AB's with the Cubs along with a hoarde of other players that saw significant starting in the cubs lineup, that shouldnt see any this coming year. Replace with Izturis - Career .295 OBP Soriano - Career .325 OBP Ward - Career .314 OBP DeRosa - Career .331 OBP League average OBP is around .330. I don't see how we got better OBP wise other then getting Lee's bat back in the lineup...

You honestly think, as it stands now (thats for wolf :wink: ) the Cubs are a 3rd place team? Yup, if that. The Cubs have done very little to address the glaring weaknesses that made them fail in 2006 (and 2005) including OBP and starting pitching in general. if i read this i would think that the cubs havent signed anyone good, thankfully i know better Lilly and Marquis may not be Zambrano and Prior at their bests but they are better than running around the Minor League pitcher of the week out there. If the starting lineup stays healthy they will score a lot and get on base a lot especially when you dont have a [expletive] in the manager position saying walks only clog the bases How are they going to get on base a lot more? I don't see it Lilly and Marquis are not great pitchers. Lilly is ok, but a number 3-4 starter at best. We would have been better off signing Zito or Schmidt for $15-20 million and then using Marmol/marshall/guzman/prior out there for the last spot. Feel free to call me out in the season if I'm wrong, but I just don't see it and I am not going to get burned thinking the Cubs are better then they really are when the numbers don't say it. Then if we signed Zito who would get rocked at Wrigley when the wind is blowing out or Schmidt whos arm might fall off ,you would go and complain saying Hendry shouldve known better instead of throwing 20 million at the. Nope, I would have said well at least we didn't lock up 2 spots in the rotation with mediocre pitchers The cubs have added Derosa, last year at least he had a OBP of .357 i will gladly take that over Neifi Perez and his .266. Cubs have improved there. Would you rather have put Cedeno out there with his .271 OBP? Would you not have complained if Hendry didnt do something about the middle infield? No I would have signed Ray Durham instead of going after a career .330 OBP guy with a career year at age 31? The Cubs added Soriano which has a .351 OBP and scored more runs than anyone on the cubs last year. He also had a .560 Slg which is 1 percentage point below Aramis Ramirez. Id gladly take this over scrappy who kept hitting the ball to 2nd base. I would take him too but there were better options for the Cubs out there. His career OPS is .835. You are paying $17 million a year for a guy with a .835 career OPS. Think about that. Again, good OBP last year in a career (and contract year) when he was the only viable power threat on the team (meaning he was pitched around and INT walked). Now that he insists on hitting leadoff, he will likely get pitched too directly as they would rather him swing away and K rather then put him on for Lee and Ramirez. But yes, there was an improvement here. I'd say this will give them 3-4 more wins next year Now add barrett who had a OBP around 370, Lee who will have a OBP up there, Murton around 360 give or take ect. You aren't adding anyone here other then Lee, which is where the other 5-6 win improvement comes from. BTW, Barretts career OBP is .328 not anywhere near last years .368. You might be guilty of being a Jim Hendry and only looking at last years numbers to assume future numbers. Yes those numbers should be weighed slightly more heavily then say like 2 years ago...but they cannot be taken as definite indications of how they will be in the future, especially when they are changing teams to different lineups. I dont see how anyone can say the cubs havent improved a lot. bottom line is that they won 66 games last year, had the worst OBP in the league (I believe) and had a really high starters ERA. So we pick up a couple of players that are known for having average or below average OBPs over their career, and then pick up some starters who have ERA+ below 100 and we are supposed to win 24 more games (I don't care that St. Louis won it with 83 wins, 90 should be our magic number)? I am not buying it. And this is without considering the Cubs will probably have a major downgrade subbing Jones for Lofton....but I can't comment on that because I don't know what major league players if any we get back. of course their will be injuries but who knows who will get injured and when. My comments are in bold