PriortoTheoIhadWood

Teams will take into consideration that Hamels was the ace on a WS winning team, but they also think that a pitcher who "wins" 14 games is really impressive. If something that doesn't mean a significant amount drops Anibal's price tag a bit, all the better. If price and length of contract is not considered, of course it's no contest. But you have to take those things into consideration and if I can pay a guy $30+ million less for 1-2 years fewer, and know that the production on the field isn't all that dissimilar, I have to look at that. As for Anibal's age - he'll turn 29 in February. Thus, a five year deal would make him 33 in his final season as a Cub. And a 5-year deal isn't something I'm chomping at the bit to give him. I'm willing to, but only under the right circumstances (i.e. the AAV is much lower). Hamels turns 29 in December, so a 6-year deal would mean he'd be signed through his age 34 season and a 7-year deal (very realistic) would mean he was signed through his age 35 season. Add in that Hamels likely gets at the very least $30+ million more than Anibal and that becomes a significant extra investment. You're assuming the production moving forward will be similar when even there I disagree...Similar usually is a nice way of saying proportionally worse so sure it fits, but that's not something I'm jumping at the chance to throw money at that. Maybe if Sanchez wasn't the proud owner of a multi-surgery arm he'd be more appealing but he's a second tier arm and the Cubs are a team looking for impact talent. If the Cubs had a more complete roster, then sure, but even then they should be leery with that kind of history. Going after pitchers with checkered injury histories is not something they should be committed to doing unless its on a very, very clearly a steal for the talent type deal (usually considered a gamble at the time of signing a la Carpenter or even Lieber to a point). Sanchez isn't the missing piece and he's not enough of an impact piece to throw money at, WAR be damned. Finally, I think he stays in Miami anyway. In fact, I think he's more likely to remain with his team than Hamels is. I again have to insist that the only rebuilt shoulder they should chase is Upton's.

Hey guess what...Hamels doesn't and didn't have that problem. He hit him precisely where he should have and wanted to, just like Zimmerman would and did later. So your examples are an unintentional beaning and pegging a stranger with a rock....Christ let it go you're not even making a point.

1) A professional pitcher is capable of throwing a pitcher where he wants to. He DIDN'T throw at Harper's head just like Zimmerman threw at his leg....Guess why? Also how stupid is that "what if" in the first place. You equate yourself or some random pegging someone with a rock that might go astray with a person who throws a ball with precision for a living. Not to mention that while a baseball has mass most rocks will weight more and generally...[expletive] this is so stupid. For the love of the planet earth take that kind of boring nonsense outrage over nothing and use it on one of the many genocides going on right now....Or maybe try to polish up some of the ideas they couldnt present with Occupy.

Ugh and the phony morality wins out yet again. Are sponsors pulling out as well? It's a minor punishment but it still embellishes soxiety's general bratty attitude. Nothing fails to just not offend. Are you serious? If I'd intentionally throw a rock-hard baseball at someone on the street, even though I only meant to aim for their thigh, and even if I did no real damage, I'd be arrested. It's ok with you just because it happened on a baseball field? Yeah that's like totally the same [expletive] thing. I now get why Hamels is a meany poo head who just commited a so grosy act upon an innocent unknown teenage boy. Those boys play so rough! Why can't they be nice? Why don't people just play nice? I'm outraged, hear me roar! MeeeeoooooW! Ok, so then enlighten me. How is what happened with Hamels and Harper any different from the scenario I described, other than it took place on a baseball field during a game? There is absolutely NO difference whatsoever other than that. Not even a little bit. I'm 100% sure it occurring on a baseball field is ALL that's needed. That's a HUGE difference. Throw a rock at some strangers head and tell the cop that Cole Hamels got away with it...what kind of ridiculous point do you even think you're making? That it was wrong and not nice? Whoa try not to fall off that limb! Wtf? Why don't you waste phony moral outrage on something that actually matters? Maybe where someone was actually hurt?

Ugh and the phony morality wins out yet again. Are sponsors pulling out as well? It's a minor punishment but it still embellishes soxiety's general bratty attitude. Nothing fails to just not offend. Are you serious? If I'd intentionally throw a rock-hard baseball at someone on the street, even though I only meant to aim for their thigh, and even if I did no real damage, I'd be arrested. It's ok with you just because it happened on a baseball field? Yeah that's like totally the same fuckin thing. I now get why Hamels is a meany poo head who just commited a so grosy act upon an innocent unknown teenage boy. Those boys play so rough! Why can't they be nice? Why don't people just play nice? I'm outraged, hear me roar! MeeeeoooooW!

Ugh and the phony morality wins out yet again. Are sponsors pulling out as well? It's a minor punishment but it still embellishes soxiety's general bratty attitude. Nothing fails to just not offend.

I understand that's tongue in cheek and all, but I think Justin is there for the long haul, due to all the young pitching they've got on the way. If we make a bigtime trade for an impact guy, I could see Felix or possibly David Price/Evan Longoria in that general time frame. Yeah I've pegged Price as a Cubs for a while. No actual clue why just have...obsessed with pitching maybe.

The Upton trade isn't until 2014 folks.

I think it's pretty clear the implication here is not that Hamels is a better pitcher because he's pitched on better teams. It's that he may be more prepared to handle the pressure of signing a huge contract and moving teams (in his case, another high-pressure city/franchise). This would basically be a lateral move for Hamels; not so for Sanchez. I have no idea how either would react, or if it would even necessarily matter; but even Albert Pujols is seemingly struggling with this and "pressing" (unless you think he is hurt, or completely fell off a cliff at somepoint between the World Series and Opening Day). Moreover, you've mentioned that you're reluctant to sign Grienke because of his anxiety, which is basically a different way of saying that mental matters as well as physical. Now, most all of this unlicensed psychoanalzying will be factored in their respective contracts -- obviously, "baseball people" love the "winner" label -- so it's probably a moot point. And, personally, I'm guessing Sanchez will sign a much more reasonable (repeat: reasonable, not just cheaper) contract than Hamels, and I'd rather leave room for Upton in any case. But I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Hamels' success in a figurative fish bowl. This is exactly it on that point, and that's exactly what pedigree is in the first place. Don't think this won't matter to teams that Hamels was the ace on a WS winner while Sanchez has been a non-ace on a bottom dweller. It's like any other field...The more you've seen and done matters, ESPECIALLY since they're essentially the same age. I'll have to get to the rest of that post later. Too many words for a phone. Will point out that Samchez has been healthy all of two years in the big league, hence the gloss over injuries point. Pinning injuries on a guy at 34-35 makes little sense when you're pushing giving 5 to a talent that has been far more damaged for years. Btw giving 5 to Sanchez makes him 33-34...Thisnisnt even a fn contest objectively. Sanchez would make a nice Dempster replacement...Hamels gives the Cubs a guy who's a legit #1 start on pretty much every rotation in the league.

See but the first time I saw Kershaw's HS stuff (pre draft) he jumped out at me. Kershaw was also hitting 96 his senior year.

That exec sounds very Cub-by....Stack info for as long as possible then get bitches..eerr draft talent. I still really wish I could see what everyone sees in Fried (besides that sick nasty curve).

I'm not basing this on what I think, I based it what I figure they're thinking. This is another way of saying that you're basing this on what you think. He's the best of those guys easily when you're looking at age and projection. They're almost CERTIANLY not targeting Melky Cabrera over him. That's borderline ridicuolous...Recent career year or not...Upton is significantly better over the course of their careers and is way more physically gifted. Wrong. If I can have Upton at 6/100, I'd take him over Cabrera at 3/30. I based that post on the thinking of what could run through Theo's head, with this being his first big FA signing. Yes, BJ is a 4 WAR guy consistently and yes, he's heading into his prime. But, if Cabrera has another solid season(he was a 4 WAR guy last year too) and the price tag is TONS different, I do see Theo erring on the side of caution. 1) Cabrera's reward for his 4 season season at..25(?)...was to be traded. What does that imply to you? Upside? 2) If he repeats last year (off to a great start) then WHY would he only get 3/30? Hell, why would Sabean Let him hit FA to get 3/30 when his team can't hit? 3) Again, this is what you think Theo/Hoyer will do, which is another way of saying this is what you think. 4) Would still trust Upton more than him anyway, and he probably won't get 100 million.

Word is you get a discount if you buy the 195 guy and he's had at least two arm operations. Sounds like a deal the Kansas City Cubs should be in on!

I don't think it's "cool", but it very clearly is old school. It's something they've always done and something all "old schoolers" want younger guys to do. And the whole event was finished when Hamels went up to bat and Zimmerman returned the favor. Why would anyone be up in arms about this? The whole thing was procedural and speaks a great deal to the kind of talent Harper is. Why do you take such great joy in seeing this particular procedure? If it's all about returning the favor and getting even, how about just never starting it in the first place? I think people can probably figure out Bryce Harper is really good without seeing him get drilled by a pitch. Because I don't live in Ideal Land where everything and everyone molds to our phony, overindignant morality and the numbers ( which despite that devastating blow were still in the Philly's favor). Why are you so upset? Do you think Bryce Harper woke up giving a crap (butthurt, if you will)? At the risk of sounding like a hated meathead who doesn't "get it," it's [expletive] baseball. It's not the first time it's happened, it won't be the last, and not a soul was injured. Isn't it boring to pretend to be taking some high ground on a nothing issue? Is this REALLY that offensive to anyone here? Are you protecting your big investment here? Harper answered the challenge and that's ALL any of the players give a crap about. How come no one is offended for Hamels getting hit by Zimmerman then? That wasnt blatant? What if Hamels got a boo boo on his leg? I mean it already didn't pay off for Hamels to hit Harper, why add a splinter to the embers?

I'm not basing this on what I think, I based it what I figure they're thinking. This is another way of saying that you're basing this on what you think. He's the best of those guys easily when you're looking at age and projection. They're almost CERTIANLY not targeting Melky Cabrera over him. That's borderline ridicuolous...Recent career year or not...Upton is significantly better over the course of their careers and is way more physically gifted.

jesus, he's topped 195 innings the past two seasons, quit fixating on this stupid arbitrary threshold already and formulate a new argument that makes sense Yeah that's been the crux of my whole argument...No big deal that he's got a surgically rebuilt shoulder that's never topped what's suddenly an arbitrary number for a SP...I mean what kind of IDIOT expects 200 innings from a guy getting called "almost elite" in this thread who apparently we should just hand some money to this offseason....THAT makes sense. How in the [expletive] did you wade through all that to handpick quotes and come away with that's my only point? [expletive] yuuuch. TWO HUNDRED INNINGS, THERE MUST BE TWO HUNDRED Fck that give him ALLTHEMONEYZ that way he can afford the surgeries! The Chicago Charity Cubs with hearts of gold and the lowest range of motion rotation in the league! Arms of steel baby!

Upton, the youngest of that group gets 5th? FIFTH? Three below MELKY Cabrera? On age talent and price tag alone he should be at worst two (since they probably like Youk) and probably #1.

jesus, he's topped 195 innings the past two seasons, quit fixating on this stupid arbitrary threshold already and formulate a new argument that makes sense Yeah that's been the crux of my whole argument...No big deal that he's got a surgically rebuilt shoulder that's never topped what's suddenly an arbitrary number for a SP...I mean what kind of IDIOT expects 200 innings from a guy getting called "almost elite" in this thread who apparently we should just hand some money to this offseason....THAT makes sense. How in the [expletive] did you wade through all that to handpick quotes and come away with that's my only point? Fuckin yuuuch.

I don't think it's "cool", but it very clearly is old school. It's something they've always done and something all "old schoolers" want younger guys to do. And the whole event was finished when Hamels went up to bat and Zimmerman returned the favor. Why would anyone be up in arms about this? The whole thing was procedural and speaks a great deal to the kind of talent Harper is.

My grandmother might agree.

I'll look up the quote myself but talking about it at all is stupid. The news will make news out of it in the name of pumping out content...then again I guess these guys double as entertainers.

I agree I was just working with dew's projections made earlier. No way anyone gives Sachez 100 million...For 2-3 nice seasons where he MIGHT top 200 innings once? Personally 14 million per is where I'd tap out, and I'd only be in if I landed a bigger fish first. Personally I think we'll be shocked at how quickly they act once they act...Like you say there should be plenty of money to play with.

Cole Hamels is the George Mallory of intentionally throwing at talented young baseball players. Lol pretty much. This mountain won't kill him, fortunately. I actually expect Harper to own Hamels btw...He put some good swings on him last night...I expect him to own a lot of pitchers.

Whoever wants to...How does this not scream pack alpha bs to anyone? That's ALL it is and for the most part it's not even malicious...It's a HUGE compliment towards Harper....baseball welcomes a new top dog. Why is this more than it is? Where have you people been the past 100+ years? . These guys get paid millions to hit, throw, and catch a ball. The whole operation is stupid and pointless but it exists.

Harper exists...and there's no way Hamels just found out who he was last week. The guy was on the cover of SI at 15 and his videos are all over the Internet (including blowing kisses to opposing pitchers.) Ballplayers know who the bonus babies are...even if we fans like to lord our intelligence over then via the Internet. It has nothing to do with being offended...Everything to do with make testosteroned up bs. This shouldn't even be an issue/story, but 21st century sport makes anything and everything a story.