i don't mean to overstate things, just saying that Penn State is pretty decent this year and losing to them isn't as bad as losing to Michigan or Northwestern might be. have they passed Illinois as a program? no way. but i love how all you illini guys do is bitch and moan about your own program, but god forbid someone says something about it. Ok so which is it, has Penn State passed the Illini's program or not? I have no problem with somebody saying something about the Illini's program, when what is being said is true. But in this case your original comment was ridiculous. Penn State isnt a good team, and either are the Illini. Is this the worse loss the Illini have had? No way we just lost last week to Tenn St., but its definatley not a loss to be proud of right now, and it wont be a loss to be proud of at the end of the year. Penn State will be in the bottom 5 with Illinois, Northwestern, Michigan, and Iowa when the season is done. I think Penn St.'s got a decent chance of finishing ahead of Minnesota and Purdue. Probably unlikely they finish 5th, but if I had to guess I'd probably put em there. The Illini have been trending downward since the national title game, but they really aren't anymore. To say they're trending downward implies that in the coming seasons they'll be worse, and they won't, they're likely to improve each season more than the previous for the next 3 years.