SouthSideRyan

How bout, Huntington's an idiot, he values tools goofs like Gorkys Hernandez and guys who throw hard and can't control it like the A-ball guy. What constitutes more depends on what the individual values. When Dave Littlefield traded Rajai Davis for Matt Morris and his awful contract could he not gotten more for Rajai Davis.(Yes, he could've just released him) When Jim Duquette(Or Jeff Wilpon or Rick Peterson or Al Leiter or whoever pushed that trade through) traded Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano, was that the best deal he could get for Kazmir, or did whoever pushed for the trade irrationally overvalue Victor Zambrano/irrationally hate Kazmir. Look let's say Huntington sold McLouth for the baseball equivalent of $1. It's been suggested in this thread that some other team would've gladly offered him more than $1, which strikes me as foolish and naive. There's no need to argue whether the actual players involved are actually worth $2 or 2 cents. The Pirates rated them at $1, and more to the point, they didn't have another offer over $1 out there, or else they would've taken it. So you're gonna ignore my 2 real world applicable question and make a bad analogy. Baseball players aren't evaluated the same across the board. Neal Huntington may feel the 3 "prospects" he got in return are worth the hypothetical $1. Jim Hendry may feel those 3 are worth $.05, while thinking some offer the Pirates turned down was worth $4. Your definition of value says that every trade ever made was all a GM could get because the GM in question valued the return as equal to that which went out. It's absurd.

I change my opinion then. If McLouth is dead, this was an ok deal for the Pirates.

So I'm a liar because I've been saying he'd be a big letdown from Day 1 and I have the posting history to prove it? And not just a liar. An expletive liar. Oh my. Well you can be the last one to go down with the ship Cap'N. Bradley never convinced me, because these .765 OPS corner outfield jokers can make parts of seasons look good and yes, a .400 BABIP in Texas is ultimately quite convincing. And nobody would have any idea he'd have injuries to his legs. Give me a break. Oh you predicted doom and gloom, I'm [expletive] stunned.

How bout, Huntington's an idiot, he values tools goofs like Gorkys Hernandez and guys who throw hard and can't control it like the A-ball guy. What constitutes more depends on what the individual values. When Dave Littlefield traded Rajai Davis for Matt Morris and his awful contract could he not gotten more for Rajai Davis.(Yes, he could've just released him) When Jim Duquette(Or Jeff Wilpon or Rick Peterson or Al Leiter or whoever pushed that trade through) traded Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano, was that the best deal he could get for Kazmir, or did whoever pushed for the trade irrationally overvalue Victor Zambrano/irrationally hate Kazmir.

and something like 4 of them are pickoffs, iirc what this trade says to me is that Huntington is trying to build a team with insane defensive efficiency. i dont like the lack of power they're going to have, but hernandez, mccutchen, tabata would cover insane ground, considering their lousy collection of pitchers throughout the organization might be a decent strategy. but they really should have gotten more in return. IMO, the benefit to going with an OF that would cover insane ground, is that you can get great defensive OFs on the cheap. You don't trade your best player so you can have a stud defender in RF.

There's a pretty big difference between the 2. My only complaint with the baseball situation is how people continue to phrase it as "not enough blacks in the game" while only counting US born of African heritage. It's not a racism thing, it's a money thing. Nobody has the interest in reaching out to poor Americans, building them up in the game, and then having to pay them big money. There's no need to when you go to Latin America and pay them nothing.

That's a silly reason to not like it. What don't you get? The Pirates season was thrown away the minute it started. Seriously they weren't going to do anything. And McClouth wasn't the guy who was going to determine if they ever returned to contender status. The Pirates season ended the moment Bonds and Bonilla left town. Too bad the Pirates dont have any money. Imagine them with Aramis Ramirez, Bay, Nady, McClouth, Freddy Sanchez, LaRoche, and Ryan Doumit. The NL Central could have spent a lot of years looking up at them As I'm sure Jake will tell you, the Pirates have money. They just won't spend it.

Because that thread's full of raging idiocy. Which I'm sure you (Davearm2) can provide.

Because that thread's full of raging idiocy.

More like Twinkieaholic!! (He's addicted to some sort of fermented twinkie drink)

Davearm2 you're needed in the Sosa thread, it's lost velocity lately.

At any given moment the 30 smartest willing baseball minds are GMs.

Jake Fox is 5 years away from becoming a free agent.

I want Paul Sullivan shot into the sun.

The As gave up Carlos Gonzalez, Greg Smith and Houston Street for Holliday this past offseason. I'd be surprised if Beane would take less than what he gave for Holliday. Do we have the pieces to match what the Rockies obtained? Hendry and Beane seem to have a good relationship. I think Hendry could pull off another one of his patented rabbit out of a hat trades. Remember, between the Nomar, Aramis, and Harden trades, the one guy we MIGHT end up missing one day is Gallagher. Hendry may throw foolish contracts at players, but hes good with trades when this time of year rolls around. Josh Donaldson's a long way away, and won't stick at catcher, but he could still do something.

Well there are three possible explanations here: a) this deal accurately reflects the trade value McLouth has around baseball; b) Huntington didn't perform the due diligence necessary to gauge the trade value McLouth has around baseball, and a better deal was out there that he didn't discover; c) Huntington knowingly took less than the best offer for his player. C) is laughable, and b) is highly unlikely IMO, especially when we're talking about the Pirates' marquee player. Huntington himself said it was a very difficult decision to trade McLouth, so I doubt he went about the process haphazardly. D) The Pirates front office in spite of being Creech/Littlefield-less is still full of horrible talent evaluators, and thinks a bum like Gorkys Hernandez is actually a prospect. Under your definitions every trade made ever is an even swap value-wise. I said it already, if that's McLouth's value on the trade market then you don't trade him.

So what is the difference between each type of cheating? when you are apart of an era of players who are demolishing records and pretty much make up almost all of the core of "superstar" talent, i think that makes a huge difference over the cheating in the past... So you're fine with cheating to a point. What's the exact cutoff point? Apparently 1989.

While I'm sure there are a few addicts in the HoF (didn't fergie do coke?), I should have said users. Mike Schmidt, Willie Mays, Willie Stargell, and Ralph Kiner all took greenies with the assumption it would improve their performance. I'm sure plenty more HOFers did, too. Hank Aaron. steroids and growth hormone are more of an athletic aid than greenies Thanks doc.

I'd say Dimaggio was pretty well established as a Yankee icon in 1949.

I don't think Hendry will move Vitters for anything.

While I'm sure there are a few addicts in the HoF (didn't fergie do coke?), I should have said users. Mike Schmidt, Willie Mays, Willie Stargell, and Ralph Kiner all took greenies with the assumption it would improve their performance. I'm sure plenty more HOFers did, too. Hank Aaron.

That's a silly reason to not like it. What don't you get? The Pirates season was thrown away the minute it started. Seriously they weren't going to do anything. And McClouth wasn't the guy who was going to determine if they ever returned to contender status. You don't see how it's frustrating to be a fan of a team that hasn't finished above 500 in 16 years giving up on a season 1/3 of the way in while 4 games under? This isn't the pre-'03 Trib Cubs hoping to be competitive within the division frustration. This is a Pirates franchise that hasn't given fans a reason to care for the last 16 years, telling the fans that they don't care, and aren't going to try for ANOTHER season. That and the package they received was really shitty.

Because back then men were men and women knew their role.

We all know these sluggers have been using their designer steroids for years. Just because a guy didn't test positive means he didn't do steroids?? Burn the witch.

Really? His 3 year combined OPS against RH pitching is over .800., and surely he can outhit Aaron Miles, Bobby Scales, etc... And he'll field like Jake Fox.