CubbieSouthpaw

Let the dream die, Pagen is not good. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/angel-pagan.shtml Edit: At age 24 D-Lee put up this line for the FLORIDA MARLINS .281 .368 .507 28 HRs and 70 RBI I'm not gonna disagree with you, but what if Pagan has finally put it together? All the better for the Cubs, and if he didn't then maybe he'll turn out to be that good, young, cheap bench player thats needed every year. Either way Cubs win.

If either are ready by the 2007 season it'll be a miracle.

Every once in a while Baker makes a comment that makes sense. :lol: And those times people need to pause and realize that the end of mankind is just around the corner. :D

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :roll: Enough is enough. GEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Why didn't Hendry sign him instead?!?!?!?!? If you're asking why Hendry didn't sign Dunn? Because he wasn't a FA. Dunn was arby eligible, not FA. Its ashame Hendry didn't have a chance at him though.

Not that the Cubs need one. But hasn't Graffanino played all the infield positions? I agree with Willis, I'd rather just keep Walker.

The deal was renegotiated so Cleveland would receive another player from Boston if Mota goes on the DL. Some additional players are included as compared to the originally reported trade (Shoppach going to Cleveland, Riske and Bard to Boston). Thanks NC. Trades get more and more complicated by the year.

Thought I heard that Mota failed his physical. Or was that the first go around with this trade?

As khufure said. Make it an incentive laden contract. Maddox should be the #5 pitcher on this staff and he's gonna make 10M or so. I say go 1 year with Weaver.

It took about 3 minutes, and was necessary to refute your claim that Prior doesn't deserve a raise. So because you put that in there I'm not supposed to reply if I find your claims that Prior doesn't deserve a raise preposterous? What does it mean to have no realities of the game? I said the shortsighted approach to looking at the game (viewing Prior's injury and saying he doesn't deserve a raise, ignoring that in a 3-year window he compares with some of the more highly compensated players at his position) gives you absolutely no perspective on the realities of the game. I didn't say you have no realities, whatever that would mean anyway. I'm saying, you can't look at Prior, say he was injured and just declare that because of that he doesn't deserve a raise. You have to look at the whole picture. Personally I'd love it if he only made $2.5m next year, leaving that extra $2.5m for other player acquisition. But when you look at the big picture, he was absolutely in the right to void his contract, he earned that right, he deserves to get what he can through arbitration, and he earned that right. Arbitration eligible doesn't mean he made all his starts. If you want to argue that injury time should take away from arbitration eligibility, and therefore players like Prior shouldn't become arbitration eligible until they put in three healthy seasons, go right ahead. You won't get far against the MLBPA, but go right ahead. Excuse me for basing my opinion on facts that are readily accessible with minimal research effort. I'm not rolling my eyes at you or your opinion, I'm just telling you why I think you're dead wrong. You can have whatever opinion you want, but don't be upset when somebody with a different opinion lays out the reasons why they think you are wrong. I didn't know you have to be right or wrong about an opinion. Maybe you should read your own sig.. I based my OPINION on the facts that I had at the time. I wasn't rolling eyes at your opinion. I did so because I made a short opinion and you carried it to extremes. I actually agreed with some of your opinion and stated so in a previous post. Question: Has Prior pitched an entire season without going on the DL because of injury(freak or otherwise)? NO, he hasn't. I want to know his durability before his big payday. From what I remember most people didn't have a problem with Woods contract when it was signed and look what happened with him. Is there anything wrong with knowing how he will handle a complete season? My feeling was he should have stayed with his current contract and prove he can be durable. And ranting was involved. I realize most if not all the players go for the money and could care less about the team. I respect what you say, and have gotten a lot of good info from your postings. But I've also noticed you get a bit overzealous in some of your postings because you and whoever don't agree. BTW, I have no desire to apply and run the Cardinals down. (No emoticon here)

So instead of paying Prior $5m, which he has earned, deserves and is likely to get, you'd rather let him walk, and then go out and trade for Kris Benson and Matt Morris. Please go apply to the Cardinals so they can be run into the ground. This overzealous disdain for Prior and his injuries is utterly preposterous. Over the past 3 season, when he was 22, 23 and 24, Prior has amassed a record of 35-17, with 497 IP, 572 K, 157 BB, 438 H, 1.19 WHIP, 3.23 ERA. Compare that to some recent big money signees: AJ Burnett 19-20, 352 IP, 332 K, 135 BB, 304 H, 1.25 WHIP, 3.61 ERA Josh Becket 33-25, 476 IP, 464 K, 168 BB, 421 H, 1.23 WHIP, 3.42 ERA Jon Garland 42-34, 630 IP, 336 K, 197 BB, 623 H, 1.30 WHIP, 4.29 ERA Kevin Millwood 32-29, 555 IP, 440 K, 171 BB, 547 H, 1.29 WHIP, 3.83 ERA That's 4 players, all but Becket making significantly more money than Prior is making, or will make after arbitration, and Josh will probably make more this season. Not one of them has outperformed Prior over the past 3 years. Garland has more IP, but most of those innings were poorly pitched. And you're sitting here complaining that Prior exercised a right he had in his contract to void his $2.5 million deal for this season and go into arbitration where he'll make between $4-5 million. Are you kidding me? Do you realize what else is out there? This short-sighted approach to looking at the game of baseball gives you absolutely no perspective on the realities of the game. Now I'm overzealous and utterly proposterous over Prior and his injuries? Wow, big words. Who's being overzealous? I'm not the one who wasted all that time looking up stats of pitchers. If you would stop, and go read my first post. It said at the bottom SOME RANTING INVOLVED or close to that. But instead you take a I'm right your wrong approach. And when did I say anything about letting him walk? I DIDN"T!!!! I said trade him. Further more now I have no realities of the game? If you're asking do I spend my days and nights looking up stats, contracts, and trades. HELL no, and refuse to do so. I love to watch the game, I know the rules of the game. Just because I don't get fueled by it like you and others do. Doesn't give you the right to say I have no realities of the game? I've got a better idea. Since you are going to ignore my posts anyway. Why not just start now and not reply to this one. When I joined this board it was to talk baseball and stay intouch with what the Cubs were doing. The only reality I didn't have was that I would have to eat, sleep and breath baseball in order to post an idea, opinion or rant and not be slammed for it. Those that like to look up stats and everything else is fine by me. But I'm not going to just to prove a point or opinion. :roll:

He does deserve a raise. He signed a contract that gave him the option to void his deal once he became arbitration eligible. The Cubs offered him that option in the contract they signed him to. He is arbitration eligible. He earned that eligibility. He earned the right to void his final year and he earned the right to file for arbitration. Even injured Prior is worth way more than $2.5m. The past 3 years he's put together a stretch that was easily worth as much as the many pitchers signing 3/27-30m deals. It's not like he backed out of a contract and is holding out for more money. The void option was part of the contract. I understand the contract part of it. I just don't agree he's worth it. Some of those pitchers you're talking about with those 3/27m contracts have proved they can pitch an entire season and Prior hasn't. Are they as good as a healthy Prior? In a lot of ways NO. But if they win games, start every 5 game then they've been more valuable then Prior has. And to offer him a 3/27-30M as you stated in another post is just wrong. Like I said several times before. I like Prior and believe he's going to be one of the best pitchers in baseball. The fact still remains if he can't stay healthy for a full season he will be in the same line with Wood. We can hash this all you want. But in the end, Prior still needs to prove himself as a healthy pitcher. Until then as far as I'm concerned the Cubs are paying 2 pitchers to spend a good portion of the season on the DL. Give me 2 of the those 3/27M pitchers that stay healthy and you can keep Prior in the hopes that he might stay healthy.

I'm probably going to get bashed for this. But hear me out. If Prior wants more money then he should show he can stay healthy. I say if the Cubs can get Tejada and Bedard for him then do it. To me he's still in that prospect mode. He hasn't proven that he's durable enough to handle a full season. Yes, his injuries aren't all related to pitching. But he still hasn't proved his worth for an entire season. So ranting was done in the above. :D Prior is too brittle to earn a raise from $2.5m (Neifi's money, less than Rusch)? But you want Bedard to replace him, a guy with a history of pitching related injuries, who is older than Prior and hasn't come close to dubplicating his success. The grass is not always greener people. Prior at $2.5m was an absolute steal. His arbitration price will still make him very affordable, and he will be somewhat penalized for the injuries that kept him from being at his best. I don't disagree with you. I like Prior as much as everyone else does. But the fact still remains that Prior hasn't proven himself to stay healthy. Yes, he's a great pitcher when healthy. But so is Kerry Wood and thats been a nightmare in itsself.. The point I'm trying to make is you don't go in and ask for a raise when you know you don't deserve one. As far as I'm concerned. Prior hasn't earned a pay raise. As for Neifi? Well, I don't have anything to say cuse that is a waste of money. If the grass is already Brown (which it is with the Cubs.), then why not look on the other side and see if it turns green. [/b]

I'm probably going to get bashed for this. But hear me out. If Prior wants more money then he should show he can stay healthy. I say if the Cubs can get Tejada and Bedard for him then do it. To me he's still in that prospect mode. He hasn't proven that he's durable enough to handle a full season. Yes, his injuries aren't all related to pitching. But he still hasn't proved his worth for an entire season. So ranting was done in the above. :D

Gooney, don't scream too loud. But I see a Hendry small trade before his big trade. This Tejada thing is still sticking in my crawl. I'd like to have Miggy, but not at Prior's expense. Meaning, with Walker gone, move Cedeno to 2B and Tejada at SS. Its just a thought.

This is just outta,...outta,.... I don't know why they would invite him to ST. :shock: His name is cool. Like his BA. In the subzero range of cool.

This is just outta,...outta,.... I don't know why they would invite him to ST. :shock:

soriano hasn't been able to unlearn any of his problems thus far in his career, and it's unlikely that the cubs coaching staff would even see these things as negatives anyway. if soriano wants to get better, chicago is probably the worst place for him. Sully, not that I disagree with you. But the Cubs coaching staff has improved Ram's defense at 3rd. Its quite possible they could do the same with Soriano. Either way I just don't see the Cubs going after him.

With people all around the world as members here? Especially since most are Cub fans? Hell freezes over before that happens. :lol:

Erik's quote was "Nothing good can come from having Marquis Grissom on this team. Nothing" A top character guy is something, isn't it? It seems that he's always been a fan favorite everywhere he's been. I see nothing wrong with him being on the club as long as Dusty doesn't try to over use him. He could be a big help to Murton as far as mentoring.

Thanks all. Now that all of this and none of that makes any sense I'll go to bed and prepare for tomorrows activities. Everyone have a Happy New Year and Die Bleeding Blue.

First off, I like this type of thread. I to question this whole Tejada mess. I believe Miggy wants to be traded. But I just can't figure why Hendry would start with Prior. He never has started at the top, why now? Yes, I realize its one of the top SS in the majors. But who put Priors name in this so called offer, if one was even made. From what I understand most if not all teams that talked to the Cubs at the winter meetings wanted Pie. I understand that Hendry wouldn't get in the door with just Pie and maybe the O's don't need him. But enough teams expressed interest in him that Baltimore could spin him around to bring in what they want. As far as Dunn goes? I don't believe the Reds would ever trade him to the Cubs for the same reason the O's supposedly won't trade Tejada to the Red Sox. Sorry so winded, but I agree, somethin's fishy about these so called trade talks. I do have a question or two. Has Hendry actually said anything about this? And is this legal for clubs to bring up an idea that outshined was talking about? I know clubs can't talk between themselves about controling the amount of money a player gets or something along those lines. Again sorry, I'm just not up on most of this stuff as a lot of you are.

Oh lord another Dusty guy.

Talking about the attendance in Wrigley. The seats were a lot smaller back then. I believe it was the late 50's when they updated them the first time and then again in the 70's and 80's. If I remember correctly from a book I read. Max back then was around 49,000.

Kaplan said that he heard that Hendry was pushing hard to acquire Zito, and P. Sullivan said that he had heard that from his sources also. I say just sit on him and don't flip him. That would be an awesome rotation. I agree with you as long as Pie (stated earlier) isn't in the deal and Zito agrees to a contract extension before the trade.