Nobody said they didn't help. The issue is that people seem to think one kind of illegal help is too far, and any other kind of illegal help in the past is ok. I don't know. Some people seem to be suggesting that today's PEDs aren't much or any more effective than greenies. I'm struggling to see how that could be true. The evidence seems to suggest that, at a minimum, some PEDs were really effective at making really good players, really really great. Also - that seems to be your issue. You seem to have an issue with people thinking one kind of PED is worse than another kind of PED. Others don't seem bothered by such a belief. What don't you know? Abuck is wrongly accusing people of pretending they don't help. We agree they help. But so did stuff back then, and if they had the stuff they have now back then there is no question they would use it. It is completely naive to pretend the "anything to get ahead" mindset was more ethical back then than it is now. They just didn't have the access. yeah, but they didn't have them, so they didn't take them. i'm not going to diminish hank aaron's numbers because i think he would have taken steroids if they were available. come on.