Backtobanks

Scott would be a great addition either as a regular or platoon with Murton.

Actually, he's one of the few ESPN guys with a clue. Apparently he doesn't have a clue as to the fact the Cubs don't have an owner to authorize spending $260 - $300 million.

The Red Sox will free $52.6 million off the books for next year by letting their free agents (Schilling, Clement, Lowell, Gagne, Hinske, Tavarez, Timlin, Kielty, and Clayton) walk. They probably will trade Coco Crisp saving another $4.75 million ($5.75 in 2009). Also, Varitek @ $9 million and Ramirez @ $20 million come off the books after next year. If they spend $20 million replacing the eight free agents plus $30 million for ARod (replacing Lowell) they would be where they are now. Looking for the right combination of payroll and chance to win the WS, the Red Sox and the Angels have to be the top two teams.

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If money is the only hold up to signing Arod, we should deal Jones, Dempster, and Marquis if that will help. I can't believe we couldn't get rid of Jones and Dempster w/o having to pay much of their contracts if we take back basically nothing. Not so sure about Marquis, but it'd be nice if we could deal him and not have to eat much of his contract. We have enough end of the bullpen guys that one of them could step in and close. If we get ARod, I think we have to give Pie and Murton the keys to CF and RF for at least next year. With a rotation of Z, Lilly, Hill, Marshall, we could use Prior, Gallagher, etc as the #5. Basically, if ARod decides he wants to play in Chicago and he can play SS w/o severely injuring himself or others, I don't think we can afford to let money be the only obstacle. He turned down a huge chunk of cash to get out of NYC, so you'd think money isn't the only consideration for him. And at the same time, being a contender isn't enough by itself b/c the Yankees are obviously a perennial contender. It would appear that he wants to make a lot of money (though I'm not convinced he's going to demand $30m for 8 years) while playing for a contender in a place that he will also be happy. I'm guessing that narrows the list of options to Boston, LAA, and us. I don't see the Mets getting involved with Wright & Reyes already over there. If he really likes Lou, I would think his top choice has to be either here or Boston. Man, I've love to see what ARod could do facing NLC pitching. While I would love to see ARod on the Cubs, it isn't going to happen. The overwhelming favorites have to be the Angels and Red Sox. They both have the money and are capable of delivering the WS ring that he wants. Many of the other teams mentioned (White Sox, Mariners, Giants, Orioles, Marlins, etc.) are more than one superstar away from contending. The Mets have Wright and Reyes on the left side of the infield. The Phillies would still be without pitching and wouldn't have the money to acquire any pitchers after signing ARod. Getting back to the Cubs, it starts with the expensive long-term contract. Secondly, dumping Dempster, Jones, and Marquis for prospects and not picking up much of their contracts is unlikely. Finally, ARod would probably like to stay in the AL where he knows the pitchers and the DH position is available for later in his career. A third place finish in the ARod sweepstakes for the Cubs.

Assuming a lot of things. But I'm more skeptical; we've been paper champs before. Bedard is not a one-year wonder. He's been a solid pitcher for a lousy Orioles team for the past 3 years. Also, he's been putting up good numbers while playing in the AL East as opposed to the NL Central. If you don't like the deal, so be it, but you can't argue the fact that Bedard is a good pitcher.

I'll ask my usual questions when I see this type of proposal: A) Would you consider this a good trade if you were a fan of the other team? B) Do you really think the other team couldn't get a better offer for the listed players? To answer your questions: A) It depends on whether I was the type of fan that realizes that the Orioles need to start over. Obviously, if I was the kind of fan that thought the Orioles could be and would be competitive in 2008 or 2009, it would be a bad deal. I've been a Cub fan for over 50 years and in hindsight I wish the Cubs would have traded off their stars and started over many times in those 50+ years. The Orioles have no hope of being competitive in that division for the forseeable future. B) I would think the Orioles can probably get a better offer by trading Tejada and Bedard seperately, but you never know how teams match up in the trade market. Also, MacPhail having first hand information on all of these players and their potential could be an advantage or a disadvantage. As I pointed out in my initial post, the Orioles would be getting a lot of young players that have the potential to be good. In 2-3 years the players they receive could be 40% of their rotation, a starting SS and CF, and a solid loogy.

I was hoping Atlanta might take Marshall, Cedeno and another pitching prospect. Don't know if that would fly for the Braves. I'd like for the Cubs to keep Theriot as a utility guy. Who else is in the market to upgrade at SS this offseason? Cards? Astros? White Sox? Giants? Nats? Reds? Blue Jays? A's? Twins? I read one site that suggested that the Braves might take a young major league pitcher and another major league ready prospect for Renteria. If that's true, Marshall plus Cedeno fills that bill.

BtoB, Might it be easier to get Edgar Renteria? He had a better year than Tejada, and only has 1 year left on his deal. Boston has already paid Atlanta for his buyout clause. Hoops, I would rather get Renteria because of the cost, but when I saw on a few sites that the Orioles might have to listen to offers on Bedard because of their situation, I thought maybe we could obtain two players in one big deal. Renteria for Marshall plus Theriot?

Cubs trade: Marshall, Ohman, Patterson, Jones, Veal, Cedeno Cubs get: Tejada and Bedard Orioles save about $10 million and get a starter (Marshall) to replace Bedard, a SS (Cedeno) to replace Tejada, fill a need in LF (Jones), fill a need in the bullpen (Ohman), fill a need in CF (Patterson), and receive a future starting pitcher (Veal). Cubs fill their offensive need at SS and get a quality starter under their control for two more years. Lineup: Starters: Soriano LF Zambrano Derosa 2b Lilly Lee 1b Bedard ARam 3b Hill Tejada SS Marquis/Gallagher/Prior Murton RF Soto C Pie CF Sounds good to me.

With all of the teams that are desperate for starters in a very weak free agent market, I can't believe the Cubs would match their offers.

I've never been a fan of Dunn's, but if the Reds would accept this deal, I would jump on it.

I was not aware we had any players named Lurton. :wink: I really wanted Murton to have a fair shot at starting again. Though, it may be best to bring in an upgrade. Also, I don't see Murton bringing much in at the moment. His stock isn't low, but isn't exactly high and it would take another big piece to bring in a talented player. If we start Murton in AAA next year, and hurt his trade value some more, I'm going to scream. That said, I think we should package him with Dempster and someone like Patterson for a big bat at SS or RF this offseason. If Murton is to be traded, it should be in a package that gets us a young big bat for SS or RF. I don't want Murton traded for some 35 year old RF.

I'm all for going after Santana, but not at that price. Let's not forget that Santana might be a one-year rental. Also, you are assuming the Cubs will sign a big-name CF to replace Pie.

I disagree. I think Hendry realizes that the Brewers will be as strong, and maybe stronger, in 2008. Also, the poor performance in the playoffs certainly shouldn't make him complacent. I would imagine he will be looking at the SS options (Renteria, Tejada, Furcal) first and then possibly a middle-of-the-rotation starter.

I think Dempster is one of those names that the Cubs ought to quietly leak his name to assess his trade value. If someone is willing to give something of value for Dempster, or a package including Dempster, then go ahead and make the trade. In other words, I don't think he ought to be traded only as a salary dump.

Well, at least you didn't suggest anything unrealitic. :lol: Well, it't not COMPLETELY unrealistic: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2828947.stm Apparently the arm transplant is more realistic than the trade scenario. :wink:

Well, at least you didn't suggest anything unrealitic. :lol:

Most big market cities have a large African American population, so I don't understand him mentioning only Atlanta and Washington.

A player honest enough to admit he wants the money and not the ring.

I didn't see anything in there about increasing OBP, so until then, he's got a ways to go. He's had a lot of quotes over the last year where he mentions about how he wants to increase the teams OBP, in addition to the fact that when he sent Pie down he was quoted as the one thing he wanted Pie to work on was plate discipline. It may not have come into fruition on the roster yet (which ultimately is what matters if Hendry wants to keep his job) but Hendry's quotes from the first of the year on to that subject have been dramatically different from previous years. I do agree that this article was very nice for him. For example, he was asked the question about situational hitting where it would have been very easy to simply agree with the question but instead he made sure to disagree with it. He showed faith in some of his young players like Hill and Soto, and everything in the article indicated that he's taking the whole season as more important than the small 3 game playoff sample. All of those were criticisms of Hendry in the past both in his actions and his words (making too many decisions because of small samples, no faith in young players, focusing on the wrong things) and it's nice to see that his words have changed. Hopefully he'll show this offseason that his actions have continued to change as well. It was a nice article, but I am amazed by posters who dislike Hendry making a big deal about what he didn't say. He didn't say Pie would start in CF, he didn't say tha Soto was absolutely the starter for 2008, he didn't say anything about improving the OBP, etc. It seems to me that Soto and Pie playing regularly is a decision that the manager makes and not the GM. As for the OBP, it might improve with an off season acquisition or possibly with additional coaching by Gerald Perry. But its the GMs job to decide whether or not to go out an acquire someone, so yeah hes important in the decision as to how much time the young guys get. While Hendry has been the GM, he's had young players lined up to be the starters almost every season, but that was changed by Baker who ended up playing veterans.

I didn't see anything in there about increasing OBP, so until then, he's got a ways to go. He's had a lot of quotes over the last year where he mentions about how he wants to increase the teams OBP, in addition to the fact that when he sent Pie down he was quoted as the one thing he wanted Pie to work on was plate discipline. It may not have come into fruition on the roster yet (which ultimately is what matters if Hendry wants to keep his job) but Hendry's quotes from the first of the year on to that subject have been dramatically different from previous years. I do agree that this article was very nice for him. For example, he was asked the question about situational hitting where it would have been very easy to simply agree with the question but instead he made sure to disagree with it. He showed faith in some of his young players like Hill and Soto, and everything in the article indicated that he's taking the whole season as more important than the small 3 game playoff sample. All of those were criticisms of Hendry in the past both in his actions and his words (making too many decisions because of small samples, no faith in young players, focusing on the wrong things) and it's nice to see that his words have changed. Hopefully he'll show this offseason that his actions have continued to change as well. It was a nice article, but I am amazed by posters who dislike Hendry making a big deal about what he didn't say. He didn't say Pie would start in CF, he didn't say tha Soto was absolutely the starter for 2008, he didn't say anything about improving the OBP, etc. It seems to me that Soto and Pie playing regularly is a decision that the manager makes and not the GM. As for the OBP, it might improve with an off season acquisition or possibly with additional coaching by Gerald Perry.

M's Guillen to opt out of contract? Jose Guillen's agent says the Mariners right fielder probably will terminate his contract and become a free agent. "That's the way it's headed," Adam Katz said during a brief telephone conversation. The contract Guillen signed last Dec. 4, which paid him $5 million this past season, included a "mutual option" in 2008 worth $9 million, or a $500,000 buyout. -- Mariners.com He certainly would look good in RF for the Cubs. I like Murton, but acquiring Guillen could make Murton available in a package deal for a SS (Tejada, Renteria, Furcal).

When you say "from all the posts" you must have just not read many of them b/c I don't think #2 is true at all. I and others have made it pretty clear that if an improvement is not acquired, Cedeno should be starting. I frankly don't care if he struggles a little in ST either. Theriot could OPS .900 in ST and then suck for 5 months (like the 5 months he sucked this year). I guess I shouldn't have written "from all the posts", but there were some posters who felt that Theriot should start. My point in #2 is that neither player has produced enough at the major league level to be handed the starting job and I stand by that statement. Many people have pointed out that Cedeno is younger and has a higher ceiling, but so far his major league numbers have been terrible. All of this gets back to the question of whether the Cubs can afford to be patient with Pie, Cedeno/Theriot, Murton, and Soto all in the starting lineup while the team tries to contend.

Sign ARod and you don't have to worry about Cedeno/Theriot and Murton and Pie in the everyday lineup. Case closed.