Backtobanks

As CCP said, our 1st round pick is protected so we'd only lose a second rounder for signing Dunn. Also, the Nats reportedly wanted Gordon Beckham for Dunn, I don't think they're going to take a lesser deal from the Cubs. We'd be looking, probably, at one of Vitters/Castro/B Jackson/Cashner being the key in a trade, I'd think. I'd rather give the second round pick. If the Nats wanted a 2B, it's a shame we got rid of Theriot. =D> =D> =D>

Agreed. After these recent blowouts, I can't even say we're playing for pride anymore. Let's just get ready for next year/the future. But they're gonna be nice and give Piniella what he asked for (to leave on his own terms). Hendry's just a stand-up guy. :roll: These last few games just prove Alan Trammel cannot manage. Yeah, Trammel sure can't get his starters to last more than a few innings. Plus he caused Silva's heart to race.

Make us a lot worse than what? Everybody's on board with trading Fukudome for salary relief and Fontenot is redundant with DeWitt on board. Hermida might rebound with Jaramillo, a decent prospect might help in the future, and salary relief helps for next year. Fukudome is better than Hermida, and Fontenot is in all likelihood worth more than the "decent prospect". Since you're kicking in money it doesn't save very much. Saving 5 mil is not worth giving away Fukudome and Fontenot. Just because Fukudome and Fontenot are redundant doesn't mean they aren't valuable. You don't trade quarters for nickels just cause all you have is a roll of quarters. Fukudome @ $14 million for next year is almost untradeable. The Cubs will be lucky to get a "decent prospect" for Fontenot, so taking a chance on a 26 year old who has had some success, a "decent prospect", and cash savings sounds like a good deal for 2 players who are not in the plans for the 2011 Cubs.

Make us a lot worse than what? Everybody's on board with trading Fukudome for salary relief and Fontenot is redundant with DeWitt on board. Hermida might rebound with Jaramillo, a decent prospect might help in the future, and salary relief helps for next year.

We already have too many outfielders. And I like Hermida. DFA Nady. Problem solved This. DFA Nady (31) and replace with Hermida (26) Hermida would probably have to be non-tendered at the end of the year anyway (I'm not sure about that when there's a release in the middle, but I still don't think he can get less than 2.68 million next year without being non-tendered first). And the Cubs don't have enough at-bats for Fukudome right now. Where are they going to find at-bats for another left-handed outfielder? Hermida probably wouldn't be any worse for the Cubs but there isn't really any realistic upside because he wouldn't have any chance to show anything. So it becomes a pretty pointless move. How about Fukudome + Fontenot + Cash for Hermida + decent prospect?

One weighed him with his clothes/shoes and the other weighed him without. =D>

First thought, move the Twins to AL North-Central and move the Pirates to AL Northeast giving each division 5 teams and each league 15 teams along with keeping some geographic integrity.

[expletive] YOU [expletive] MORONS ?? All that says is they will not be able to deal him in the next two days. Not that they have to trade him over the winter. Obviously they need for Z to prove he can still pitch before trying to trade him.

I'm sure this is part of their plan to drive down the asking price of Lilly.

I don't believe that for a second. There's a good chance the Angels aren't going to make the playoffs this year and Lee exercised his rights not to uproot his family for 2 months and then probably uproot them again wherever he signs. Actually, I think it shows a lot of character to make the decision he made.

How about a 2-fer? Grabow and Howry for a resin bag.

I'm sure it's a matter of letting teams know he's available for next winter if he rebounds. Of course if anybody is crazy enough to make a decent offer now (a pack of chewing gum), Hendry would be more than willing to trade him.

With Ordonez and Guillen going to the DL, how about a trade sending Lilly, Theriot, and Fukudome/Nady to the Tigers? I would assume that should get us a decent return in prospects, provide some salary relief, and open a spot for Fontenot.

I didn't say he was worthless; you're completely making that up. I said I value someone who has a ceiling higher than being a reliever and has a good shot of getting near or hitting that ceiling than someone who is going to be anything more than a closer, and probably not even that for very long. Your sense of "equivalent value" is skewed because you keep declaring him to be "exceptional" and comparing him to guys who have had abnormal longevity as closers that Marmol almost certainly can only dream of having. The bottom line is that he's a gigantic injury risk and most closers aren't effective for more than a few years. Selling high would be very smart, and it wouldn't require getting back an "exceptional" prospect for it to be a very smart move. I guess we'll have to disagree on how good Marmol is right now. Right now, I would describe him as "exceptional" and I don't have a crystal ball to predict that his career or effectiveness is going to end very soon. If he's not worth a "can't-miss" and a mid-level prospect, then they shouldn't trade him.

I guess I shouldn't have used Rivera's name, but my point was in answer to the suggestion that someone who does nothing beyond pitching out of the bullpen (Nuts and Gum) is borderline worthless. There are many outstanding closers (Lee Smith, Trevor Hoffman, Bruce Sutter, John Franco, etc.) that were very valuable role players to their respective teams. As for trading Marmol, I don't believe we would get equivalent value for him especially since prospects are unproven. Should Hendry listen to offers for Marmol (or anybody else)? Sure, but only if he can get equivalent value.

Rivera is the exception that proves the rule. He was also a guy with a K/BB ratio of 4/1 and a career WHIP of 1.00. Marmol is an incredibly inconsistent pitcher who will never be able to maintain his current K rate. If his BB rate does not come down sharply he's going to spend his career with inconsistent results that won't come close to Rivera. Also, the mention of Mark Prior here is just dumb. I don't even know what you could be possibly trying to accomplish with that one. The reason I mentioned Prior is because many posters mention that Marmol is a serious risk and his arm is going to explode any minute. When Prior was pitching, many "experts" lauded his perfect mechanics and predicted he would never have arm problems.

Well, no. If a pitcher is young, affordable and outstanding they can easily net you at least one decent player who has a ceiling above being a reliever that's a gain right there that I'd be very happy with. I'm not expecting a huge haul; just one or two good prospects. So you would be happy with a prospect that might be a #4 or #5 starter over a sure-thing, lights-out, proven closer? Because he's a huge injury risk, he's not affordable for much longer and he's never going to do anything beyond pitching out of the bullpen. Mariano Rivera seems to have done pretty well for a guy who's never done anything beyond pitching out of the bullpen. As for the injury risk, thank God he's doesn't have the perfect mechanics like Mark Prior.

Right. I'm not saying the Cubs need to move him, but they should definitely be listening if people are offering. That's exactly what I've been saying, listen to all offers, but trading someone like Marmol would take an exceptional offer.

"who they should be trying to trade" seems to include a lot of overpaid and/or unproductive players that nobody else will really give up anything of value for. with the likely exception of lilly. I agree that the list of players they should be trying to trade does include overpaid and/or underproductive players, but what's the alternative for a team that has to retool? Trading away your young players for another team's young players is a crapshoot.

So Marmol either is or will be a superstar...but you declare he won't net the Cubs much in return. Hey, it's great that you can have it both ways. Stop lumping in a guy whose ceiling is being a closer with Soto, Cashner and Castro. Marmol's kicked ass, but it's extremely unlikely that he'll pan out to be some kind of freak that has a long effective career. I also like how you bemoan the Cubs having Soriano, like he's terrible for them this season. Just stick to your usual ridiculous video game trade suggestions. You need to get off the video games if you think Marmol is going to net you very much in return. Relief pitchers (even great closers) don't net you great returns. So what's the point in trading him if he's young, affordable, and outstanding? I don't "bemoan the Cubs having Soriano", but you must be the only person on this board who doesn't want him (and his contract) traded. The only reason I listed Soriano as a player to keep is because no team will take him, so there's no use in pretending that he won't be part of the 2011 Cubs.

Every GM will get criticized, but the history of the Cubs, the passion and loyalty of the fans, and the media in Chicago makes it rather unique.

Why not? Why is he a super star? There's no good reason why Marmol can't be traded. If he's not a superstar, he's on his way to becoming one. Using that logic, should we trade Castro, Cashner, or Soto? What's Marmol going to get you? Maybe a good AAA player and a decent AA player at most. Like I said earlier, listen to offers on anyone, but it would take an overwhelming offer to get Marmol (or Soto, Cashner, Castro, etc.)

My point is that Ricketts has to put a product on the field next year to sell tickets. Following some of the posts here, we should trade ARam, Marmol, Byrd, Theriot, Gorzelanny, Colvin, Lilly, Lee, Fukudome, etc. As I've posted before, the Cubs will go into 2011 with a team they think can compete with their eye on contending in 2012. Obviously Ricketts plans to cut the payroll (at least for 2011). I would think that you need to keep players like Byrd, ARam, Colvin, Gorzelanny, Castro, Soto, Cashner, Marshall, Marmol, Dempster, Soriano (unfortunately), and Wells to be the core so that you can fill in the rest of the spots with prospects and/or reasonably priced FAs. As for the Hendry part of the discussion, my point has always been that he will be criticized no matter what he does or doesn't do. If he "sells high" on Marmol, there will be dozens of pages criticizing him for not geting enough and paying too much for relief help in 2012 (if they're contending). Everybody knows who they should be trying to trade - Lilly, DLee, Silva, Soriano, Fukudome, Zambrano, Theriot, Nady, etc. to open spots and get salary relief. Listen to offers for anybody on the team, but unless you're going to get the second coming of Albert Pujols, you don't trade away a young, superstar closer who is still very affordable.

I got a great idea, let's sell high on Marmol now and then bitch when Hendry gets him back in 2012 when he's making $13 million per year and the Cubs need a closer.

And the "lame duck" manager is still using him in tight situations.