mdwilla

"Surely" you can project he will suck at the end of his deal.

they updated the story espn had the story tagged Towers and peavy's agent share a cab to vegas.

Glad I wasn't the only one who caught that. A cab for 4.5 hours? They couldn't rent them a town car with a driver , or even fly Towers there coach? Maybe he could drive himself ? 4.5 in a cab, I would bet that all three of the peolpe in that car where talking into there bluetooth headsets the whole way there.

http://lesterslegends.com/?p=4853 Fun fact of the day - Tim Raines son is named Andre, after a good friend of his Andre Dawson. His son would later change his name to Hawk.

2800 hits440 HR 500 Doubles 1600 RBI 300 Stolen Bases 8 Gold Gloves (4 in CF) MVP ROY Insane. Let's also not forget Dawson played in Montreal so the whole small market stuff about Raines is overblown. Dawson also finshed in the top 2 in NL MVP voting 3 times in the 80's. I can't see moving Raines ahead of Dawson based only OBP and Stolen bases. I can't ignore other outfielders who aren't in the hall with better numbers than Raines because he batted leadoff. .

A 9 time gold glove award winner to a guy that won 0. Sure writers and fan don't know what there talking about but Raines was no where near the fielder Dawson was bad knee's or not. Teams did not run on Hawk.

http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2008/12/khalil_greene_o.html

Greene to the Cards http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2008/12/khalil_greene_o.html

The Giants still have to improve their offense alot before they would have a chance at winning the division. Renteria would help,but he's not nearly enough. Remember this team has a middle of the order of Randy Winn, Bengie Molina and Aaron Rowand. If they can add a big bat with Renteria and another SP then it might be possible. Like if they had Derrek Lee? I don't see Derrek Lee agreeing to go to the Giants. Plus who plays 1b for us? I never really saw trading Lee as a realistic option, just a possiblity if it made alot of sense. But Hendry isn't gonna go with DeRosa or Hoffpauir at 1b next year. I think we would have a better chance at him accepting a deal to a contender like the Angels or Dodgers. If the Giants decide to go into win now mode and starting spending like there's been rumors of this offseason (Sabathia, Ramirez) maybe Lee would accept a deal. If trading Lee and Marquis can get us the prospects to land Peavy , the money saved in moving Lee could be spent on one of the more expensive LH bats for the outfield in Bradley/Dunn. Giambi has made a ton of money over his career and doesn't have a ring yet, he used to be a very solid defender and would give the Cubs another left handed slugger that gets on base.

Paul Molitor was a coke head, too. Should we relinquish his plaque? I was trying to prove a point that not only are Dawsons numbers better but he's also not a huge piece of Howry like "Rock" Raines. I just think it's hilarious that the third best "leadoff hitter" of the 80's would get in over a guys who's numbers match up with Mays and Bonds. Peolpe loves to knock the leadoff hitter label and call SBs over rated expect when it comes Raines. Is Kenny Lofton a HOF?

http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2008/12/khalil_greene_o.html I wonder if Greene/Pie for Olson works? It would be nice to get Peavy wrapped up before the meetings so we can find another bat and maybe a bullpen arm.

Most definitely. I would think that had Rickey Henderson not existed Tim Raines would be the premier lead off hitter of the 1980's and a case to be made for him entering the hall would be much easier to make. Really if you think about it, Rickey Henderson's excellence is what might keep Tim Raines out of the HOF. He would've been 4th all time in steals instead of 5th, and it would've been a difference of 131 steals instead of 598 between him and first place. Raines does, however, hold the record for the highest stolen base percentage amongst retired players at 84.7%. Beltran currently has a SB% of 88%, that's why I worded it as "retired players" since Beltran's career is far from over and things could change... although he's got 275 steals compared to Raines' 808. To steal 808 bases and be successful roughly 85% of the time is unreal. It's a tough call. He did however score more than 1,500 runs and while some people might think that feat isn't anything that should be hall worthy, take a look at the list of players who have score 1,500 runs or more... http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hitting/hiruns3.shtml You'll find some of the best players in baseball history on that list, even near the 1,500 mark. Raines is one of those personal decision HOF votes... not really a guy who clearly should be elected, but more a guy that most people would be willing to listen to arguments for his case to get in the hall in a chance to persuade voters. That kind of guy. He's iffy. Me personally, I want to see him in there. Paul Molitor and Ricky Henderson are the leadoff hitters I think of during the 80's. Sometimes I forget about this board and the love affair with walks but I can't see Tim Raines in the hall over Andre Dawson . Dawson was a complete player. Finshed in the top three in MVP voting in the 80's 3 times. The only players who can match Dawsons 2,774 H, 438 home runs , 314 sb are some guys you might know Willie Mays and Barry Bonds. He also had a cannon an of arm and was a force in the clubhouse. Raines was a coke head. I could run all day too if I was coked up. The guy wanted peolpe to call him "Rock". Leadoff hitter is not a postion is a joke that gets some mileage around here but it should go for the Hall too. I don't care where they hit in the order Dawsons numbers are better and he was a two way threat with the Trophy case to back it up. I'm glad the recent numbers from Hall voters agrees with me.

Raines over Dawson? Dawson 77 ROY 87 NL MVP 9 - gold gloves 2774 hits 438 HR 318 SB 1591 Rbi's Raines 2605 hits 170 HR 808 SB 294 Avg 385 OBP What I am I missing ? Lofton numbers are pretty close to Raines is he HOF worthy?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove08/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=3741195&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines I read a report earlier this offseason that Dunn wants to play for a contender and was getting serious about his weight and was already working out at some training center. Let's say Dunn's price falls into that Jose Guillen range. Ibanez- More than likely to get two years similar price/Older/ just as bad in the outfield/ Inferior hitter/draft picks Bradley- headcase/same price/ injury plagued/draft picks/ Why is he not on are radar?

My bet on the third team is the Giants and Sanchez being one of the players headed to San Diego. The Giants could bite on Marquis or Lee.

If the Braves go five years on Burnett, which is insane , even worse considering the market . Towers has even less leverage, though we all knew that peavy would not waive his no trade clause for the BRaves .

Gammons says deal is done and Vazquez is taking physicial tommorrow .

Why are the White Sox slashing payroll so much after attendance was up last season. Swisher ,Vazquez with Jenks, Dye quite possibly soon on there way out of town also.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8882368/Sources:-Braves-look-to-deal-for-ChiSox's-Vazquez?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49 hopefully this offically takes the Braves out and moves this Peavy thing along.

Lots of payroll flex if we lose Lee and Marquis. Dunn at first?

I wonder if it was an AL west team that he turned down a deal to? It's odd for Churchill to name his source outright like this. Why Does Lee's agent want this out ?

Yes, they sometimes do. I don't understand how you are trying to incorporate the players association into this argument. Jer: I recall posts in other NSBB threads over the years suggesting that the players asso/union has some level of influence when it comes to contracts, the argument being that it is not good for ALL players for one to accept a deal that is substantially lower than another being offered. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I'm only saying I've never heard of a player accepting a one year deal for $8 mil over a deal for 3-4 years at $6, 7, or $8 mil per year as has been suggested in this thread. Can you provide an example of a player that did something like that? Best example that comes to mind is Kerry Wood last offseason. The Red Sox offered him a mutli year deal with the intent on making him there closer. Randy Wolf signed a 1 year, 8 million dollar deal with the Dodgers a couple of years back (with a team option for a 2nd year) when there were multiple teams offering him 3/22-24 in that crazy starting pitching offseason. There are others, but they are decently rare. good example. thanks.

Man would this be sweet.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081125&content_id=3691955&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp If we end up trading Marshall adding a veteran lefty to the Pen wouldn't be a bad idea. Rhodes doesn't cost a pick , he's cheap and on a year deal. He had a few good years with Lou back in Seattle.

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/weblogs/padres/2008/nov/26/no-news-no-news/?padres