Sounds insane, but at least hear me out. It's a lot closer than you might think. If you just look at VORP, Win Shares, WARP and other statistics like that - Jeter is better than Guillen in all of them. However, there's the whole "value to the team" argument. If you were to take a look at an equation of the pythagorean wins of a team hold runs allowed constant (in this case at 800), you'd get this: http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f189/kctigers23/runstowins.gif Most of you probably already realize that when converting runs into wins, there's diminishing marginal returns (wins) to each run that is created. In Carlos Guillen's case he is adding 67.0 runs from VORP takes the Tigers from arguably the worst lineup in the American League to the middle of the pack. Derek Jeter's 79.2 runs from VORP takes the Yankees from a good offense to a great offense. So all I did was take the pythagorean record from each team and calculated the amount of wins lost on each team losing their player. Derek Jeter's 79.2 runs converted to 6.61 wins and Carlos Guillen's 67.0 runs converted to 6.62 wins. That's essentially a wash between the players. VORP takes in account an average defense, so who is ever better on defense probably did more for their team. Neither player's defense is held to high regard, but in a general sense from older UZRs and recent other things, Guillen might be slightly better. There's also a case that the six and a half wins from Guillen improved the likelihood of the Tigers making the playoffs than Jeter's six and a half wins did for the Yankees. Finally there is another component that's a bit different. Jeter's higher VORP may have to do with being on the Yankees more than being better. The team OBP for the Yankees was over 30 points higher than the team OBP for the Tigers. The Yankees lineup simply turned over more creating more opportunities for Jeter to seperate himself from a replacement player and creating more runs. Each spot in the Yankee lineup had 22 more PAs than the corresponding spot in the Tiger lineup. Also, Jeter spent most of the season batting second with 50 or so PAs batting third. Carlos Guillen spent most of the season batting fifth with 50 or so PAs batting seventh. Each spot in the lineup has about 20 fewer PAs than the spot in front of it. The time Guillen spent batting fifth while Jeter batted second was about 60 additional PAs for Jeter. The time Jeter spent batting third and Guillen bat seventh was an additional 8-10 PAs from Jeter. Totalling all of these up we're going to get roughly 90 more PAs for Jeter than Guillen simply by the Yankees lineup and where they hit. Call it poor managing and the quality of hitter surrounding the two if you will. Jeter played one more game and had 93 more PA's so all of this makes some sort of sense. If you were to remove this compensation for Jeter and add the 90s PAs to Guillen, his VORP is going to be about 77.0, shrinking the difference to 2 runs. That's to the point where the quality of defense certainly makes the difference. Finally, the Tigers had some injuries, lack of production and other factors that led to Guillen getting 8 of his games at first and 4 games at DH. That's lowering the level of his replacement level player for 50 or so PAs. The main reason Guillen moved to first for this was issues surrounding the Tigers. Not really his fault. Jeter being Jeter would never play a game at first on the Yankees because he's Jeter. If he would, he would have moved off shorstop when Rodriguez was acquired. Anyways if you factor the difference in his RP because of these PA's, you're going to see Guillen's VORP jump to 81.5, a couple of runs ahead of Jeter. And a lot ahead of in wins. Guillen was actually a better hitter on a per PA basis from MLVr in VORP. Regardless, I wouldn't vote for Guillen nor Jeter (Santana), but if you undergo the assumption of no pitchers or designated hitters, Guillen just might the man over Jeter.