VanceJergins

You're voting for Izturis? Hell...why not? Because he is to the Cubs what Kim Bauer is to 24.

I think RF is the best spot for him. That way Murton and Floyd can play LF, Pie can play center, and Jones can be traded.

DeRosa has played well over 100 games at SS in the majors. Surely either he or Theriot could handle it. Just getting Izturis and Cedeno out of the lineup would improve it dramatically. Its sad that I'm excited when Izturis only makes one out in an at bat.

I'm sorry, I just can't see spending the tiny amount of spirituality that hasn't been crushed out of me on a baseball curse. There is, like I said, no way to ever show evidence of a curse, so there is no rational way to believe in the truth of a curse. Well, you think curses are irrational and I think continuing to use blind chance as an explanation is irrational. If you flipped a coin 100 times and it kept coming up heads, would you say that it is cursed? Such events occur. With such an incredible number of probabilities calculated every second, it is inevitable that some streaks emerge. Now, you might be able to convince me that it was a trick coin, but then you would have to use some actual evidence, like showing me the heads on both sides. The losing does suggest the possibility of an modifying factor. In this case, bad management seems the most likely culprit. The management hasnt been the same for 99 years. Also, if I was flipping a coin and it came up heads 61 times, then it looked like it was going to come up tails but a black cat jumped out and knocked it heads, then on flip 74 it was going to come up tails but it fell through a crack in the floor and then ended up heads, then on flip 95 it seemed sure to come down on tails but someone tried to grab it for a souvenir and knocked it heads, and then on flip 99 I committed $300 million to try and get it to come up tails and it came up heads harder than ever.....I would REALLY start to think somethings up. Of course management can't explain every loss. Some is chance, some occur from other factors. We would need a hell of a computer to analyze the exact reasons for every Cubs loss. If that cat happened to come by, perhaps there was a reason the cat was attracted to it? Really, coincidence is not evidence. You need causation, not correlation. You cannot give evidence for a curse. No matter what you do, you cannot postulate an irrational law like a curse, since it doesn't act in a predictable way. After the fact, you can come up with as many theories connecting the mishaps with a curse as you like, but unless those theories predict the exact nature of future instances of the curse (which they can't since it doesn't follow a rational pattern) they are nothing but a bunch of belief. So does it at all seem weird to you that a black cat happened to circle Santo in the midst of the Cubs' collapse in 69? If you told that to someone that doesn't follow baseball but knew about the Cubs' struggles, they would think you were joking.....And thats just the tip of the iceberg. You cannot come up with nearly the list of crazy junk that has happened to other teams. There are scattered examples (Bill Buckner, Indians' 06 run differential, etc) but nothing like the Cubs.

If you define consistent as never having blown a lead, I guess. But Dempster has been strong, and Howry has been decent. Even Ohman has only been so terrible because he was being horribly misused. The only big disappointment in the pen is Eyre. Yeah, and Guzman was great before getting sent down. In sunnydoo and abuck's defense, Eyre has sucked enough for 2 bullpens, but the Cubs' bullpen has mostly been pretty good. A lot of blame has to be on the offense for not putting games away when they have the chance.

I'm sorry, I just can't see spending the tiny amount of spirituality that hasn't been crushed out of me on a baseball curse. There is, like I said, no way to ever show evidence of a curse, so there is no rational way to believe in the truth of a curse. Well, you think curses are irrational and I think continuing to use blind chance as an explanation is irrational. If you flipped a coin 100 times and it kept coming up heads, would you say that it is cursed? Such events occur. With such an incredible number of probabilities calculated every second, it is inevitable that some streaks emerge. Now, you might be able to convince me that it was a trick coin, but then you would have to use some actual evidence, like showing me the heads on both sides. The losing does suggest the possibility of an modifying factor. In this case, bad management seems the most likely culprit. The management hasnt been the same for 99 years. Also, if I was flipping a coin and it came up heads 61 times, then it looked like it was going to come up tails but a black cat jumped out and knocked it heads, then on flip 74 it was going to come up tails but it fell through a crack in the floor and then ended up heads, then on flip 95 it seemed sure to come down on tails but someone tried to grab it for a souvenir and knocked it heads, and then on flip 99 I committed $300 million to try and get it to come up tails and it came up heads harder than ever.....I would REALLY start to think somethings up.

I'm on your side. But you need more evidence. For 100 years the list would have to be nigh 1000 long to convince some people. I'm sure there's much more out there, but I'm sure you couldn't find a team to even match that list.

I'm sorry, I just can't see spending the tiny amount of spirituality that hasn't been crushed out of me on a baseball curse. There is, like I said, no way to ever show evidence of a curse, so there is no rational way to believe in the truth of a curse. Well, you think curses are irrational and I think continuing to use blind chance as an explanation is irrational.

1. The black cat in 69. Cubs had a 9 1/2 game lead in mid-August. 2. Leon Durham in 84 Cubs had a 2-0 lead in the series. In game 5, had a 3-0 lead with Sutcliffe pitching. 3. Steve Bartman Cubs led series 3-1. In game 6, 5 outs away from the world series and Bartman happens. 4. Wood 5. Prior

Whats your evidence that curses aren't real? The wonderful thing about curses is that, like all other things falling into the irrational realm of human thought, they cannot be proven or disproven. This is because they have no defined impact on the real world. Anything can be interpreted as evidence for or against a curse. In a way, it is a form of spiritualism. You might as well pray to the Sun God to give you a boutiful harvest. If you want to believe in curses, that is up to you. Realistically though, curses have nothing to do with the real, material world. Believe it or not, that is where baseball is played. you talk as if everything about the "material world" is already known. it's not. not by a long shot. the "material world" is not an absolute, it's closer to a concoction created by the mind and the collective minds of other observers. True, but that doesn't mean we can start making up forces that act in purely unpredictable, irrational ways and say that they are perfectly rational because our current understanding does not fortell every element of the future. That is essentially what a curse does. It is random, unpredictable, and irrational. There is no way to EVER give evidence for the existence of a curse, simply because it has those properties. Actually, its pretty predictable that the Cubs suck.

Whats your evidence that curses aren't real? The wonderful thing about curses is that, like all other things falling into the irrational realm of human thought, they cannot be proven or disproven. This is because they have no defined impact on the real world. Anything can be interpreted as evidence for or against a curse. In a way, it is a form of spiritualism. You might as well pray to the Sun God to give you a boutiful harvest. If you want to believe in curses, that is up to you. Realistically though, curses have nothing to do with the real, material world. Believe it or not, that is where baseball is played. What makes your line of thinking more rational? I have a mountain of evidence.

The 03 Cubs were the first good Cubs team that I've been old enough to really follow, that those playoffs alone are enough to convince me that the Cubs are cursed. I can't imagine if I would have gone through 84 and 69.

Weren't there another 2-3 allstars on the 69 team? And I seem to recall some sort of literal black cat incident....Explain that, naysayers.

Couldn't that be evidence that curses can be broken?

Well said Wow, even the fans are getting the loser attitude. Sure the Cubs have been playing poor, but to say there is nothing they can do to win is idiotic. The only thing the Cubs are cursed with is a moron for a GM that doesn't have a clue how to assemble a team. The Cubs could get Earl Weaver to manage this team and they would still be in last place. Hendry has to go, it is too bad they let him saddle the team long term before he left. they have a team that should be winning. they're 0-5 in 1 run games and derrek lee has no home runs. weird stuff is happening. you better start believing in curses, becaue this curse is a dilly. Yay for stupid BS kneejerk reactions! Repeat after me: Curses are not real. Now, write that on the blackboard 1000 times. Is it possible for the team to outscore their opponents but still end up last in the division? Yes. Is it likely to happen over a 162 game season? No. It can happen, but it is no more likely to happen because of some imaginary voodoo nonsense some people made up to explain a a bizarre longterm aberration. Whats your evidence that curses aren't real?

Piss on you, Cubs....PISS ON YOU!!!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/randysanchez69/aaaa.jpg

Yes, it's a curse that we have an incompetent GM who spends millions of dollars on an unhealthy, out-of-shape middle reliever who sucks. I also now know why Hawk likes Piniella so much. He's a carbon copy of Guillen. Micro-manages every part of the game and runs out of players in situations like these. while i agree with your assessment of piniella, so many cubs players and managers have failed with the cubs. the late 60's early 70's cubs had like 3 hall of famers, should be 4, and they only sniffed the playoffs briefly. Those years would have been awful. They would make the 04 Cubs look like the 07 Cubs.

Yes, it's a curse that we have an incompetent GM who spends millions of dollars on an unhealthy, out-of-shape middle reliever who sucks. I also now know why Hawk likes Piniella so much. He's a carbon copy of Guillen. Micro-manages every part of the game and runs out of players in situations like these. Hendry and Piniella had nothing to do with about 90 of these cursed years.

Yeah, 100 million payroll team can't be lovable losers, they're just losers.

QFT

I hope that last call was absolutely terrible. I hope all the freaking loser Cubs cry themselves to sleep tonight. They didn't deserve to win, they don't deserve to have jobs. What a pathetic team.

We had a 4-0 lead with our "ace" on the mound....What a bunch of freakin losers.

you had a 4-0 lead, idiots.

Izturis is up.....awesome