I don't get how his fellow pitching teammates could possibly affect his ranking against the rest of the league. I don't either. I never said it would. Just that if the other pitchers in the rotation with him are good enough to have him the 5th best, then it would affect his ranking against other 5th starters. I think it's completely useless to rank him against other 5th starters. 5th starter isn't a position, just like leadoff isn't a position. A starter is a starter. If he's below average then paying much more than the average guy is an inefficient use of resources. I never advocated paying him much more than the average guy. As far as not comparing him against other 5th starters, why not. Do you expect the Cubs to field a rotation filled with all-stars? Isn't that being a bit impractical and unrealistic? No, I don't expect that, but I don't think it makes any sense to change your opinion on a guy based on how he compares to other 5th starters. 5th starter is a pointless designation anyway, since such a ranking can change throughout a season. Rarely do you go into a season with a 1-5, and then end up with the same 1-5 in the same order. The bottom line is things don't change quite a bit just by slotting him in the 5th spot. First, there's the problem of finding 2 more guys somewhere to slot in ahead of him. Second, he's still the same pitcher, and his value is still the same.