goonys evil twin
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Everything posted by goonys evil twin
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Tejada won't be as good in 2007/2008 as he is right now.
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If you judge a 24 year old pitcher just on what he has not yet done in the majors and refuse to look at the likelihood of what he will do in the future, you aren't very good at thinking about baseball.
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He was listed as a"B" prospect in John Sickel's 2004 handbook. That info is nearly 2 years old now, however. Bedard was less than impressive in the majors. 2005: 141.7 IP, 4.00 ERA, 1.38 WHIP and a .260 BAA. His minor league numbers do look outstanding, but if I'm trading Prior along with Hill, I want more than Tejada and Bedard. In the very least, I want a prospect like Markaris thrown back into the deal. Bedard is no more accomplished or impressive than Hill or Williams. He's no less of a "health risk" than Prior. He is not nearly enough to justify such a trade.
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Come on goony, The future of the Cubs is in grave doubt right now. The Cubs are one of the few teams with the finiancial wearwithall to be able to land a top free agent pitcher even with Tejada. I'm not saying trading Prior for Tejada will make this team better or worse. And I'm not saying that I would make the propsed trade. But I see a future that isn't so bright anymore. It would be in more grave doubt. Seriously. The only reason this team has been any good at all the last couple years is because they lucked into Prior and didn't screw up the Zambrano situation (they wanted to trade him or move him to closer at one point). Prior and Zambrano give the Cubs an inherent advantage over other teams because nobody has two young pitchers of that caliber making such little money comparitavely speaking. They had that advantage, and a top payroll and couldn't do anything with it because they spend so much money on mediocrity and adhere to an old school approach to the game that abhors progress.
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I'm not saying it makes them worse next year. It's stagnation. They aren't good right now, after this trade they wouldn't be good. But their future would be in grave doubt after this move. You have to either greatly improve your current chances or greatly improve your future chances with any big move. And this trade greatly improves nothing. The only thing it does is put your future in doubt.
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I can't. It's stagnation at best. You would have to follow up that deal with a major pitching acquisition. And the Cubs can't afford one. They'd still be relying on an awful OF, and might be relying on a veteran bum or completely unproven kid at 2B. The pitching staff would be littered with mediocrity.
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Yea...can you believe we are breaking up the dynasty that has been the Chicago Cubs? Cant seem to recollect our record last year for the life of me. You make a valid point. But this is Prior. He is part of the solution not the problem. He's young, he's cheap, he's good, and he has significant potential to be the best pitcher in baseball. You keep him. I don't think that point was valid at all. He's insinuating that the Cubs lack of success is Prior's fault. There would be validity if somebody said they wanted to trade the 29 year old Lee, or the 38 year old Maddux, or 32 year old Walker. There's nothing wrong with trading off the older parts of a team that has struggled if you are making smart trades. But when you trade the 24 year old studs of the organization because things haven't worked out yet you are acting foolishly. You don't trade a 24 year old because your team hasn't won with him yet.
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http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=10235 See this is my problem with the analysis of this supposed deal. People put whatever little label they want on a player and all of a sudden it starts to make sense. You have to look at the entire package, the big picture, the whole enchilada. When you do that, you can't justify the Cubs trading Prior for Tejada. The offense gets better, the pitching gets worse, the current team stays stagnant and the future is at risk.
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Why not? I've never swung the bat for the Cubs, I'd recommend giving up on me before I ever do. Darin Erstad has never swung a bat for the Cubs, I'd give up on him before he got the chance to. There has been plenty of recorded history on Jones. It would be irresponsible to ignore all that and think some such of magic dust would change things if he came to the Cubs. Jones sucks, and he's going to suck for the Cubs. But I'm sure some faction of the media will adopt him and we'll be forced to hear about what a great job he's doing and how he saved the team and how smart Jim Hendry was to get a player like him.
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The problem is Hendry already blew the budget on crap and probably doesn't have the money to upgrade the pitching to the extent it will need to be upgraded if Prior is traded. The only way this works is if the budget has been moved to about $115m and he's going to go balls out for pitching after dealing Prior.
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When smoke starts building up around Hendry's deals, they usually catch fire. Furcal is the only one I can remember that he "lost" out on. If he wants to trade Prior, he will, and if he didn't want to trade Prior he would have told somebody by now.
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Doesn't Mauer have knee problems? I think he might be an AL type catcher/DH from here on. Yeah, he's pretty borderline, however I prefer postion players. You'd be insane to trade Prior for Willis or Sheets. Straight up for ARod is dumb considering financials. A lot of those are absurd, there's only a couple guys who are worth him straight up.
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I would think there is no way he'd be okay with the rotation with Bedard replacing Prior. Bedard is no better than Williams or Hill. We'd be lucky to get #3 starter numbers out of him. Tejada takes this offense from below average to above average. You'd still need great pitching to win. And the chances of getting great pitching out of this rotation without Prior are slim and none. Even with Prior they need to get somebody like Millwood. After getting rid of Prior they'd have to get Zito and Millwood. Bottom line is you can't depend on your pitching staff to carry you and go into the season with Maddux, Rusch, Bedard and Williams in that staff.
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None of those people compares to Jones. Barrett had crappy numbers but he was very young with upside. Grudz and Karros were platoon players who were acquired in an effort to get rid of Hundley. DLee was good. He wasn't great, but he was good. Jones sucks. He's sucked for years, and he's going to keep sucking. Of course I'd like to see him succeed because we're stuck with him. But it's not going to happen.
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Haven't we heard this report 1000 times already?
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Don't see the point of that question. You don't choose to be a fan. at least, real fans don't. sometimes real fans have to be pessimistic because their team gives them no alternative. That question was not about choosing. It asked you, as a Cub fan who is one because he can do no other, whether or not any pleasure results from your following the team. I ask because of the unrelenting negativity here, much of which is understanable. There is much to criticize about the team. Having said that, it seems that every piece of news about the Cubs is greeted by some with derision to the point where it seems some people almost wallow in the negativity. If you really think it's unrelenting then I don't know what to tell you. The Cubs have done nothing right this offseason, I don't see why it's so wrong for fans to be upset about that.
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Don't see the point of that question. You don't choose to be a fan.
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What makes you think they'd have Bedard and Guzman in the rotation for the next 3 years. Both guys are bigger injury risks than Prior. The Cubs would not be a playoff caliber team for 3 years, they'd have an above average offense (still no outfield) and a very questionable pitching staff. This deal is absurd. They also would have no bargaining chips to trade for another starter, they'd be maxed out on cash for several years. Bedard is no better than Williams or Hill. He's older and no more accomplished. I'm disgusted how some people are giving Bedard more respect in these talks than Prior.
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You think they're serious? The vast majority of people who say that sort of thing are blowing off steam. You'r probably right but it gets tiresome, day after day. I agree it's overused, to the point when that sort of thing should be effective(like when we're about to give away Prior) it comes off like it does. Why would somebody get upset at a Cubs fan for talking like that? It's not like the Cubs have done a single thing to earn our loyalts, or that this person is bailing on you. This isn't a Yankees fan threatening to walk away from the team for not doing things the "Yankee way". We're not talking about Marlins fans who aren't happy with 2 WS in 8 years and are all pissed about the fire sale. We're talking about the Cubs and their inept front office. It's not a matter of sticking by them through thick and thin, there's been no thick.
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I think what's most frustrating is that better shouldn't be the question. They should be much much better. If Hendry manages to go 4 straight years with a top 5 payroll without winning 90 games once, that would be terribly frustrating to me.
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So you're giving all the positives of Zito and then describing Prior only as a guy who hasn't pitched a full season. I don't get the point. Are we talking about some third rate middle relief prospect coming of back to back tommy john surgeries? Are we talking about a 20 year old starting pitcher? Zito- full package Prior- full package The majority of baseball would value Prior higher.
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As silly as this seems to us, it's possible that the Orioles value Zito higher than Prior. Imagine the silliness of valuing a Cy Young winner over a guy who's never pitched a full season. Would you value Tom Glavine over Mark Prior? Would you value Gagne over Mark Prior? I think it is silly to define players the way you did and not put forth and accurate assessment of the two. I think if both Prior and Zito were free agents, Prior would be the bigger target. Some GMs might prefer Zito, but Prior would be a greater value overall.
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I believe a lot of it is related to everyone's favorite toothpick sucker and the seemingly unquestioning love the brass has for him. Pitchers know they can't talk about wanting to come out of games. And they'll get blasted if they question the manager's overuse of them. But they have to trust the pitching coach and manager will look out for them. Dusty never looks out for his pitchers. And while one of his jobs is to deflect blame away from players, he'll never do that either. It would not surprise me at all if a pitcher hated Dusty.
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Twins Sign White
goonys evil twin replied to RockTheIvy's topic in MLB Draft, International Signings, Amateur Baseball
Jones isn't an everyday guy either, but for different reasons. -
12/25 - Chicago Bears @ Green Bay Packers
goonys evil twin replied to burnt out cubbie fan's topic in Other Sports
People will forget about it. Elway did the same thing (to the Colts). Very rarely is that ever mentioned. People will forget, if you make up for it later on. But the local fans will never forget. I can forgive a guy for stearing clear of a certain team. But if a pattern develops where similar selfish decisions are made, I'll hold it against you.