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Figure we might as well have a separate thread for it. Chat's on-going right now - no Cubs question has come through yet. Sorry about formatting. Total side note - I completely did not realize that Felix Pena had a very solid campaign (at least, per my expectations). Frankie Montas at 17 seems low. SOUTHERN LEAGUE TOP 20 PROSPECTS 1. Miguel Sano, 3b, Chattanooga (Twins) 11. Willson Contreras, c/3b, Tennessee (Cubs) 2. Byron Buxton, of, Chattanooga (Twins) 12. Robert Stephenson, rhp, Pensacola (Reds) 3. Orlando Arcia, ss, Biloxi (Brewers) 13. Aaron Blair, rhp, Mobile (Diamondbacks) 4. Kyle Schwarber, c, Tennessee (Cubs) 14. Jorge Polanco, ss/2b, Chattanooga (Twins) 5. Blake Snell, lhp, Montgomery (Rays) 15. Brandon Drury, 2b/3b, Mobile (Diamondbacks) 6. Max Kepler, of/1b, Chattanooga (Twins) 16. Mallex Smith, of, Mississippi (Braves) 7. Jorge Lopez, rhp, Biloxi (Brewers) 17. Frankie Montas, rhp, Birmingham (White Sox) 8. Tim Anderson, ss, Birmingham (White Sox) 18. Jesse Winker, of, Pensacola (Reds) 9. Jose Berrios, rhp, Chattanooga (Twins) 19. Albert Almora, of, Tennessee (Cubs) 10. Cody Reed, lhp, Pensacola (Reds) 20. Tyrell Jenkins, rhp, Mississippi (Braves)

Still, Contreras making it on to what seems like a deep year in the Southern League is a nice sign. Sure, he had great offensive numbers, but BA always tries to mix in a balance of scouting and performance, so perhaps, without knowing what was said, this indicates that there's a level of development beyond sheer numbers. Forgot all about the chat, None of my Cubs related questions made it on. I sort of dislike how they are combining league chats now - I guess it makes it easier for them, but it leads to fewer questions on each league. Let's see, the Cubs related one I think that's it. Nothing too insightful.

If a deal needed Candelario to "complete it", I'd be fine moving him, but with his red-hot swing at AA, color me a little fascinated if he can actually replicate that and significantly boost his value. Now, if you think that was a fluke, then okay, moving him now makes since. If he can do anything close to what he did in AA for another half-full season, his value will skyrocket considering his age and average-ish defensive ability at 3rd. As for McKinney not being in the Southern League rankings ... if it's because he didn't qualify, okay, but I'd also get it because he didn't really light it up there before getting hurt, and he doesn't have the jump of the board tools to get away with average performance to make a list that should be fairly strong this year (well, I haven't checked qualification status, but sure felt like the Southern League was deep this year). I get why Tseng and Zagunis are behind Candelario on a list like this, though. Neither really has a huge ceiling and I can understand some people justifying the idea of a young 3rd baseman with tools and some performance getting pushed ahead of them. Almora at 19 is interesting. Fascinated how the list turns out.

Figured I'd throw the thread up since I just caught the rankings. If someone has a BA subscription, I'd be curious what they listed for Underwood, Candelario, and Zagunis. I'm assuming McKinney didn't qualify. I'm quite fascinated at the ranking of Candelario here. At first glance, I didn't expect him to rank in the early teens. As for the overall list, no major qualms, although I might be tempted to slide Reynaldo Lopez right behind Giolito, but that's a heavy buy on Lopez on my part. I'm not sure I really like the PIvetta ranking there, although I can sort of see it. After the top tier of talent, it sort of drops off a bit, so there's a large mix. CAROLINA LEAGUE TOP 20 PROSPECTS 1. Lucas Giolito, rhp, Potomac (Nationals) 11. Trey Michalczewski, 3b, Winston-Salem (White Sox) 2. Bradley Zimmer, of, Lynchburg (Indians) 12. Adam Plutko, rhp, Lynchburg (Indians) 3. Manuel Margot, of, Salem (Red Sox) 13. Jeimer Candelario, 3b, Myrtle Beach (Cubs) 4. Reynaldo Lopez, rhp, Potomac (Nationals) 14. Adam Engel, of, Winston-Salem (White Sox) 5. Clint Frazier, of, Lynchburg (Indians) 15. Mark Zagunis, of, Myrtle Beach (Cubs) 6. Cody Reed, lhp, Wilmington (Royals) 16. Trey Mancini, 1b, Frederick (Orioles) 7. Duane Underwood, rhp, Myrtle Beach (Cubs)17. Nellie Rodriguez, 1b, Lynchburg (Indians) 8. Nick Pivetta, rhp, Potomac (Nationals) 18. Dustin Peterson, of, Carolina (Braves) 9. Sam Travis, 1b, Salem (Red Sox) 19. Wendell Rijo, 2b, Salem (Red Sox) 10. Chance Sisco, c, Frederick (Orioles) 20. Austen Williams, rhp, Potomac (Nationals)

Wouldn't surprise me if it was something as simple as age/stuff/readiness. Santana's stuff, IIRC, was really good ... mid-90's fastball, sharp breaking ball. Add in that he was in his age 21 season, and will be in his age 22 season, perhaps the Cubs simply wanted to push Santana and see what they had. There's really only three names I really want to hear about in the coming weeks chats - Santana in the MWL (he sort of dropped off the radar a bit, and that's probably partially due to the lack of innings in Eugene and, subsequently, South Bend), Jeffrey Baez in MWL/CL, and Jeimer Candelario in SL. Very curious how those three get talked about.

What's especially nice to see at this early stage is that all the intriguing arms are fairly good strike-throwers. It's a nice crop of arms, and with some of them, there seems to be legitimately strong upside that's lacking in the system. Going to be fascinating to see which of these arms step up in full-season next year. Also going to be curious if anyone takes a big step up (I'm not so sure that Jose Paulino should be that far behind these guys to not get mentioned, but it seems like he hasn't been in the discussions ... also, what happened to Alex Santana ... vaguely recall he held some intrigue but didn't follow the day-to-day this year enough to know what happened). Feels like, considering his age, they should give a quick look to Araujo as a starter in South Bend, but if it isn't clicking early, perhaps to fast-track him as a pen arm.

The chat questions

Of all the arms likely headed to South Bend, the one that really intrigues/excites me is de la Cruz. Granted, we've had a lot of good fastball/breaking ball guys do well in shortseason, only to falter in full-season, but those are some impressive strikeout numbers that he's posted, the fastball/breaking ball combo sounds good, and it feels like he's only scratching the surface of what he could be. A big, strong frame by most accounts, and at last check, mechanically, doesn't seem to have huge issues. I don't recall any of Liria/Cruz/Paulino/Peralta/Rosario and others (naming Latin American arms that have come through the system in the last few years with some level of intrigue) sounding this intriguing at that level (Peralta and Paulino might've been close in terms of an intrigue factor). We'll see, but that's a fascinating arm at that level, and he'll be what, 21, in full-season next year.

Don't know why I never thought of it, considering the Vanderbilt connection and all, but Cease comps fairly well to a young Carson Fulmer. Let's hope he turns out as well as Fulmer did. CubsWin, I like the positive attitude. Still feels like too few high upside guys, with most of them in the low levels. If those youngsters develop and move up the ladder and stay intriguing ... then I'll be excited. Heck, much as I like Underwood, he's still a question mark laced with upside.

I've been high on Caratini, and I still think there might be a bit more pop in the bat. Now, I've certainly thought that of guys before, only for it to not happen, but IIRC, the reports his draft year suggested potential for some pop, but he takes a gap-to-gap approach. We'll see, he has time. Contreras should get AAA next year, clearing the space for Caratini to get full-time duty in AA. Relatively speaking, Tennessee should be a better park than Myrtle Beach for someone like Caratini. Chesny Young's going to have to keep producing at each level, but he's really got a nice feel for hitting. Saw him a few weeks back and I kept thinking that I think the bat can do enough as he moves up, so that he should be able to fill at least an utility role in the bigs.

I believe Scioscia's kid was released in spring, or really early in the season. Jeffrey Baez's continued hot run has been a nice surprise. I mean, that line (.354/.370/.551) is ridiculous. Of course, it's balanced by that first half line. Reminds me a bit of when Logan Watkins would go on these really amazing 2nd half runs after sub-par first halves. Of course, Baez has a better individual tool than Watkins ever had (Baez's power). Will be very, very curious how Myrtle Beach goes for Baez next year. To be quite honest, I really wouldn't be against the quick bump up now to get him into the post-season, but I don't expect that to happen.

My perspective of Jackson is somewhat biased. I know the reports and he's an intriguing arm, but two years of watching UVA bats get to him eventually ... just not that enthused with him overall. Probably more a testament to UVA bats, even last year's average lineup, than a knock on Jackson. I'm not sure he's a starter, though. Total side note, but this looks like a good draft to get a solid college guy in the mid-late first. Obviously, a long way to go.

Oh, I know you didn't say that. I was just commenting on Clifton vs. Underwood. I think Underwood's ceiling is higher than 4, but that's if a lot goes right (namely, development and consistency of his breaking ball). The pitches have flashed enough to buy into a higher ceiling, but whether or not he can achieve that and maintain his improved control is a fair question. I agree with you on Clifton's ceiling as of now. Of course, once upon a time Chris Archer had nasty stuff, suspect 3rd pitch/command, and he improved. ___ In no way did I mean to suggest that Williams is anything more than org depth. Just always interesting to see which one of the pitchability guys can work their way up the ladder and maintain some level of success. As for Twomey, waiting to hear on how his stuff is showing. If that fastball can get up a tick, he'd be significantly more intriguing.

Did something happen to Jen-Ho Tseng? It seemed like he got delayed for a few days. I can buy the idea that Clifton might have a higher ceiling than Underwood (although I think the question with Underwood isn't his ceiling, it's whether or not he can tap into the ceiling), but Underwood last year seems like he was further along than Clifton now. I haven't heard anything to suggest that Clifton's change-up is a better offering now. Of course, if Clifton's command just tightens up a tiny bit, he'll probably make a big leap forward. That said, he probably really needs to tighten it up next year and develop the change-up a bit more (or another pitch), because if he doesn't start showing signs, it's possible he gets put on a bullpen track. It's fascinating to see Ryan Williams jump up and not miss a beat. Always hard to figure out which "pitchability" guy manages to survive and excel up the ladder, and a year ago, Ryan Williams wasn't on many people's minds. Really hope this stretch by Jeffrey Baez is a sign of real development, as it would be nice to get a positive surprise story this late in the year from a guy with some tools to wish upon. I completely missed Ryan Buchter being back in the organization.

He's quietly been better over the past month or so in a general, overall perspective. He's lost a lot of luster, but (half glass full) he is still relatively new to fulltime pitching and maybe the improvement lasts the rest of the way. Another half-glass full hope is that Jeffrey Baez is finally putting things together. He can afford to give up some raw power for contact and still be intriguing. Here's hoping.

Mets did give up a really good arm in Fulmer, though. Not elite, but still a steep price to pay for Cespedes. It certainly is probably worth the gamble to push for them, but Fulmer could be a really nice gem for the Tigers.

Even if it does end up as a "reverse" Arrieta, okay. He wasn't going to get a real legitimate chance here anymore (in all likelihood), so if he stuck around, we probably wouldn't have known. Sometimes, you live with those deals, and we had to clear out some space. I wish him luck. If he puts it together, he'll be fun to watch in Camden, as he could launch a lot of bombs there.

I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted Starlin Castro ... and more ... in a Kimbrel deal, and the Cubs perhaps balked at the eventual price tag. As for this trade deadline ... is it disappointing? Somewhat. Am I angry/frustrated/etceteras? No. I came into it believing that, while huge moves were nice, we simply needed to add a solid rotation piece and maybe upgrade the pen. There were some clear issues that would limit our ability to make trades that came to fruition: a) This was a seller's market. Looking at many of the trades completed, I feel like it played out that way. I mean, Parra netted a quality young arm in Zach Davies. I mean, Kevin Jepsen essentially netted a poor man's Jen-Ho Tseng and a lottery ticket (I much prefer our Tommy Hunter deal than doing something like that). b) The Cubs lack of system depth remaining (totally fine as we graduated so many people) AND c) The Cubs lack of pitching quality in the minors. For all the talk about a shifting paradigm on a broader scale, most of these trades still involved a quality pitching asset or two. Jeff Hoffman, Daniel Norris, Brandon Finnegan, Cody Reed, Keury Mella, Jake Thompson and so forth. Heck ... I thought Papelbon was the most realistic option for a big name for us, and he still netted something that we are thin on - an intriguing SP prospect ready for AA/AAA (to be fair, I think some of our guys are similar to Pivetta, but again, if they are similar, some teams will prefer some guys over others based on numerous factors). When you couple that with some teams not selling because they are hanging around, or under pressure (Padres/Mariners come to mind), and it was going to be tough to net the monster trades. It sounds like they tried hard, but with so many elite chips called up, if they weren't moving them (and they shouldn't), it was going to be tough, and it seemed it played out that way. Haren/Hunter is okay, and the cost was just fine ... but I don't particularly care for either. At the cost, okay. I think we got better, but okay. We didn't lose any flexibility to pursue the trade market this winter, and we have financial flexibility this winter. I'm not ruling out this year, but this year was always the start of the window. They will need to thread the needle this winter in some respects - it's going to take some time, maybe a year, to really rebuild the system, so they'll need to land that critical SP FA to lengthen the rotation, and shore up some other areas.

Eh. I get it, but eh. Another former Rangers farmhand to our setup crew (Ramirez/Grimm/Strop). Watching him pitch the last few years was frustrating at times. When he's on, blistering stuff, hard to hit, he'll attack. Problem is, he'll give up a gopher ball here or there, and lose command. For the cost, okay. There were guys in the upper levels that really had no real significant future with the org, so clearing out a Junior Lake to deepen the setup rotation, even if Hunter is inconsistent, is a nice move. I'll be mildly curious how Lake performs in Baltimore, namely to see if the statistical improvement this year was anything legitimate. If he ever put it together, he'd be dang tantalizing.

My reaction to this, when I first read about it, was okay. It's depth, likely an upgrade (albeit how significant is a fair question) to consistently trotting out Beeler/Wada/Wood and so forth, so okay. It's a seller's market, so getting a rental at the cost of Ivan Pineyro, I can live with it. This was a strong seller's market, IMO (based on some of the major trades that were done), and some teams didn't pull the trigger on trades for one reason or another. I was always okay with a rental, and while Haren was never at the top of my list of guys I wanted, it's likely to be an upgrade that helps the push this year, and the cost wasn't great. They needed to make some moves, if only as "show me" moves to their key youngsters that also clears out some upper level depth that lack significant futures with the club. They did that. Okay. Not exciting, but okay.

That's a really nice deal for Milwaukee. I just don't think this is Baltimore's year, but they are pushing their few chips left in to try and make a push. Davis is a bit under-sized, but has the chance of two plus pitches to go with a decent enough fastball. He's 22 and performing well in AAA ... this is a nice return for a rental OF. The Orioles really, IMO, should've saved Davis to compete for a rotation/pen job next year with other options like Wright/Wilson. I'm not at all convinced that Parra will continue his power, and continue to be so lucky.

Pretty much, and now the Dodgers are going to be more motivated to scoop up another SP. Theo needs to pony up soon. I honestly think the Dodgers should stay put. Even if Alex Wood is a risk down the road, he's a solid starter, particularly as a 4th/5th option right now. Latos is fine as a 3rd option. Without an elite arm to go after, someone that greatly kicks things up a notch, they really ought to stay put unless the price is cheap, IMO. There's no need to thin things out. Keep Peraza to go with Seager as two possible future IF options. As for the Cubs, if Theo/Jed/Jason and Co. are thinking that they simply need a good starter to join with their four guys in place already, I could understand them not wanting to go all-in. The match-up with the Padres isn't exactly the best. On paper, they could use MI help, so if there's a way to work Castro in there, that makes some sense. If they don't want Castro and/or Baez (or if the Cubs don't want to move Baez), then the match-up is a bit more iffy. On paper, they should take the best talent possible, but they do have two young shortstops in the system in Jose Rondon/Ruddy Giron that could influence things (Torres is , as of now, better than both, and should be, but still, one never knows how folks feel internally about guys). Of course, beyond that, guys like McKinney/Zagunis make some sense for a team that's somewhat lacking on positional parts. Travis Jankowski and Hunter Renfroe give them two intriguing guys, albeit with their own questions, but more depth is needed since the transition to a new future in the OF will probably come sooner than they planned last offseason. It's not inconceivable that a guy like Christian Villanueva could fit into the picture as an option at 3rd for them. It all comes down to what they want as the lead asset. If Torres works, or if Castro/Baez make sense for them, then there's a sensible match.

Was it a fleecing? Nah ... but man, that's a steep price to pay for Mike Leake. There's no doubt Leake will improve their rotation (considering ... well ... anything would've improved that rotation considering the injuries and struggles for several guys). Is it worth it for the Giants? Probably. This is an aging team that's still in win-now mode. A sacrifice of a talented, but not elite, A ball pitcher for a pitching upgrade to make another push is justifiable, particularly when you have Bumgarner to pitch in a Wildcard game if you can get there. That said, great get for the Reds. This was already a solid system, and the addition of these arms in these two trades greatly boosts their ability to find cheap ways to fill holes in the rotation in the near future. If Jocketty can work some magic on the rebuild side, they could be back in the thick of things sooner than later.

A part of me is surprised that the Blue Jays were able to make two major deals without really clearing the deck of their top talent. I mean ... they gave up a lot of talent, but really, the only two elite guys were Norris/Hoffman. I really like a lot of the other pieces - Boyd/LaBourt/Tinoco/Castro ... but those guys were close, but not elite yet (one might be able to make a case on Boyd, I guess). That said ... that's a lot to give up for 3 months of Price. I mean, that's a potential TOR arm plus two guys with solid rotation potential. It's a smart move for the Tigers, who needed to rebuild, and this gets them a lot of arm talent. All this makes me wonder - for all the talk about the weak offenses of this era, teams are still looking hard at pitching prospects at the deadline. Now, granted, few elite positional chips get moved in general, but until our arm talent improves in the upper level, it will be hard to compete on some of these trades for top mid-season targets without giving up elite chips. Anyhow, I still think we are in a solid spot to push this year without giving up too much for the future. Will be curious what happens today and tomorrow, but even then, there's still August.

What does Moss give them that Mark Reynolds doesn't? Simple answer is probably an OF option if necessary and a lefty bat