Andy

I think the Buckeyes will rout PSU. I hope I am wrong though because I can't stand Jim Tressel and that joke of a program.

Interception! Wildcats win!

I guess I'm the only Carolina Panthers fan on this board. I'd like to issue my sincerest annoyances that you Bears fans made all the Panthers-Bears tickets like 100 bucks on the Internet. Quite disappointing. :wink:

Darn. Leinart not playing means USC might only win by 50 rather than 70. Not a big deal. If he doesn't play it's just to rest him for ND. Go Irish! :)

This game has been wild as hell. I don't even care about the Big 10 (other than hating Michigan) but I'l be pumped if NW wins this game.

Red Sox are one of the most explosive offensive teams in the league. That was El Duque pitching from the core of his soul, make no mistake. That pitch to Damon was nothing short of brilliance. D has no idea where that ball was. He swung out of total confusion, and couldn't hold up. Cubs did have some luck in 2003. And I didn't notice anyone pointing it out at the time in Cubdom. So it's a bit disingenuous to claim we would be pointing out our own luck in the heat of a World Series run. Maybe afterwards, but not during. I don't buy that for a second. Well, just like White Sox fans now and most other sports fans on this planet, we have a hard time being logical while our favorite team is making a run. I don't think that makes us any lesser fans. I would be annoyed if a Cub fan played the luck card in the middle of a playoff run because I would want to concentrate on the run itself.

I would and I'll go further, I thought the Cubs in 2003 were pretty lucky. Not many teams would have gotten away with winning division titles with Alex Gonzalez, Mark Bellhorn, Eric Karros and Damian Miller starting for substantial portions of the season. Even fewer would have done it relying on a rotation of mostly young guys with no real veteran presence (other than maybe Estes) helping them out. Hendry made some great moves that year (Hundley for Grudz/Karros and Hill/Hernandez for Ramirez/Lofton/Simon) but the Cubs would have never gotten where they got without some luck. I just feel the ChiSox have had an inordinate amount of it this year. As for the El Duque comment: ANY team should be able to get one run out of bases loaded and nobody out and most should get two, especially the Boston F---ing Red Sox. I don't care how good the pitcher does you need to get it done and the Red Sox did not. Just because the Cubs constantly screw them up doesn't mean other teams do.

But that's my whole point. Podsednik had a .313 OBP last year, downright Macias-esque. The fact that Scotty improved by a fair amount this season was not entirely unexpected, but it was just as possible that he would not have gotten any better and that is where you throw your chips into the pot and hope for the best, so to speak.

I agree with you that mediocrity is unacceptable. This year was never going to be that successful, though. Even though I went with my heart and picked the Cubs to go to the NLCS this year, realistically the year after we traded a player like Sammy was always going to be a rebuilding year. I have a lot of faith that if Jim Hendry can make some good moves and if the injury bug can go bite some other team next year for a change, that the Cubs can compete for a title in 2006. I don't know what those right moves would be but hopefully Jim does.

That's not marvelous, that's mediocre. Walker > Iguchi, Barrett > Pierzynski, Burnitz > Podsednik. Uribe barely had a higher OBP than Neifi. It's no different than Hendry's moves, probably worse. I'll say it again, unreal pitching while they built that divisional lead is why the Sox are in the playoffs. Not because of Williams, Guillen, Podsednik, the way they play, or anything else. Take a look at Crede's numbers, remarkable how similar they are to Patterson's prior to this year, while Crede is two years older. Crede's embarrassing offensively for a 3B. The Sox were 24th in 3B OBP. Rowand is an average CF after a career year, while Murton(who's had more than a September callup of 160 PA's) will be an average LF when he comes down from his hot numbers of this season. Also, why should the failures of the organization pre-Hendry even matter when comparing the two as they currently are? Mediocre if you take the individual stats only. Magical if you put them in the context of that TEAM. I love how you and others try to throw out entire season's worth of stats, marking them as "career years" just to try and twist the stats to fit your argument. That's pretty funny. But it doesn't matter. 99 wins does. A sweep in the ALDS does. Individual stats along the way don't. OK, let's forget the lack of position talent coming from the Cubs in past 20 years. Let's focus on now. Who is there? Murton and Cedeno? Pie, if he ever plays? Not much to hang your hat on. I hope Murton turns out good, but who knows if his performance was just due to the league not knowing him or what? Cedeno----you won't even remember he ever existed in two years, mark that down. Pie---who knows? The cupboard is bare, as it always has been position-player wise. Other teams bring up position talent on a yearly basis. We can't develop one, ever. Doesn't that even bother you? I love how you are throwing out '99 wins' and 'ALDS sweep' as rationalization for calling Williams a great GM. Just because his mediocre and in some cases downright stupid (Lee for Podsednik) moves have miraculously panned out for him doesn't make him smart.

Why is he not great? Because he doesn't fit the mold of a great GM? Help me out here. 99 wins. World Series run. Swept the World Series champs. Tons of moves in the offseason that have panned out. How is he *NOT* great? The facts would seem to be against you.... What has he done that was so great? His team winning a bunch of games doesnt make him a great gm. Oh, he's only put together the best team in the American league. In my book, that counts for something. If winning a bunch of games doesn't make you a great GM, then what does? That's kind of the whole point. Kenny Williams didn't do anything. He put a team out there that was actually WORSE than last year's team and they flukily won with some help from about 15 players on the team having career years at once, throwing in some opponents choking numerous times (witness the last two BoSox games), and a dash of a former no-good drunk in Jenks suddenly becoming just as good a closer as Hermanson, who had a complete fluke season after years of mediocrity as a reliever.

Minor league system comment -- let's take a look at the important ChiSox this year: Rotation - El Duque - not homegrown Garland - not (entirely) homegrown Buehrle - homegrown Contreras - not homegrown Garcia - not homegrown Lineup: Podsednik - not homegrown Iguchi - not homegrown Dye - not homegrown Konerko - not homegrown Everett - not homegrown Rowand - homegrown Pierzynski - not homegrown Crede - homegrown Uribe - not homegrown No one in the bullpen except Jenks came from the minors. So in total you have Aaron Rowand, Joe Crede, Mark Buehrle, and if you want to give them the benefit of the doubt, Jon Garland. Four players does not constitute a great minor league system. The Cubs had more ROOKIES play regularly this season from their system than the White Sox have total homegrown talent on their whole playoff roster. As for the great GM comment: Podsednik, besides his 70 steals, had a very below-average year last year. His OBP was a very non-leadoff-hitter-like .313. In my opinion, the Lee-for-Podsednik deal should have hurt the Sox offense more than it did and that is luck. Dye had his best year in five years this season. Last year he was no better than Preston Wilson and now he hits 30 homers and drops his K's by 30. Also not a great move, but a move that panned out. Carl Everett didn't even have a good year. How the Cubs miss the playoffs with Ramirez/Burnitz in the five hole and the Sox make it with this scrub is beyond me. Pierzynski had his best year ever this season, and much better than with a better offense (SF) last year. How that panned out is beyond me. Juan Uribe was worth nothing before he came to the White Sox. Somehow he has hit 39 homers over the last two seasons after doing absolutely nothing with the Coors-habitated Rockies. Also dumb luck. Also you throw in Contreras and Freddy both having career years, and Garland inexplicably having one of the greatest first halves in the history of baseball, and Kenny Williams is being made to look a lot smarter than he really is with this team.

I wouldn't sleep with Angelina either. I don't need her walking around with tattoos of my name and vials of my blood. Plus she probably has 200 different forms of VD by now. Give me Jennifer Aniston any day of the week.

Agreed, although I have different reasons. I just don't want to see a team I loathe win it all, and Atlanta and you guys are the only hopes I have left to see that happen.

The first Chicago World Series celebration in nearly a century HAS to be a Cubs celebration. If it is a White Sox celebration then the real possibility exists that the city may not survive the night. We can't let these people gather together in large numbers, especially to celebrate something.

Guerrero's on again. Does this guy ever make an out???

The way St Louis employs it you might as well change it to the LaRussa.

After the ChiSox won Game 1 of their series with the BoSox there was a sign in the bleachers that said: I'ts our Turn It just figures. Even when Sox fans are jumping on their team's bandwagon after ignoring them the last five years, they can't do it properly.

If anything, I think this is a testament to how well Jim Hendry and scouting recognize talent in a young player. Most people saw Murton as an after-thought in the Nomar deal, yet somehow he's managed to blossom into one of the best young players with the Cubs today. Want more examples? The Kyle Farnsworth deal got the Cubs one decent reliever with a nice upside (Novoa), a third baseman who broke out this year (Moore), and an intriguing young guy down in Low A (Flowers). Shipping Matt Lawton to the Yankees got the Cubs a guy who has one of the best GB/FB ratios in the system (Berg). I could also point to the Aramis Ramirez and Derrek Lee trades as an example of seeing a young player with a lot of talent. So, to put this into perspective, I do think this organization has people in it who are able to spot these players. When it comes to homegrown players, I think a combination of things have to be taken into account: 1) Injuries are always crippling. They have caused major setbacks for the following players, among others: Chad Blasko, Billy Petrick, JK Ryu, Angel Guzman, Nic Jackson, Mark Reed, Brandon Sing, Sean Marshall, Aaron Krawiec, Bobby Brownlie, and Luke Hagerty. These guys would be so much more highly regarded if they were healthy. Unfortunately, these things happen in all systems. It's just been rather bad for the Cubs recently, from what I have seen. 2) The visa crackdown. This one especially hurt last year, as memory serves me. Now that things have finally been worked out, the Cubs can finally bring over a lot of the guys they've been trying to get in through the Dominican Republic, among other places. 3) I have to wonder how the Cubs psychologically evaluate players. Given the struggles of some of their guys as they approach the higher levels of the systems, I'm curious as to whether it's because of the nature of baseball or if it's something in some guy's heads. I don't know how the Cubs do things at this level, so I'd like to hear an answer as to what they do. 4) You have to admit, the farm system has churned out some really good pitching. We've seen these guys produce really well (Wood, Prior, Zambrano) at various times and levels. Other guys have the potential to become effective in the near future (Hill, Wellemeyer, Wuertz, Leicester, Mitre, Ohman) in various capacities and have produced in the major leagues. Yes, I know it's trendy to trash these guys for whatever reason, but the bottom line remains that they are young players with a heck of a lot more upside than most other pitching prospects out there. Once the Cubs get a manager who's willing to actually coach and who actually knows how to use a bullpen, I think we'll be looking at our farm system with much better eyes. I could also point to the Aramis Ramirez and Derrek Lee trades as an example of seeing a young player with a lot of talent. so you mean like....Dontrelle? Dontrelle was shipped out for Matt Clement and Alfonseca and not for Lee. And he was largely a fluke incident. If I have the choice of trading a 6th-round pick for three years of solid pitching like Clement gave us, I will do it more often than not. And that windup is going to result in a really ugly injury for Willis someday. You can mark it down.

Real steal for the Cubs there. ESPN's Sports Guy, a Red Sox fan, asked at the time how the Cubs got the best player (Nomar) and the best prospect (Murton) in a trade. How things turned out with Nomar notwithstanding, it's probably the third best deal Hendry's made, behind Hill/Hernandez for Ramirez/Simon/Lofton and Hundley for Grudzielanek/Karros.

There's not much value in finishing 4th. That's not a biased opinion. It's what most of America believes, and probably what the majority of sports writers will determine. Maybe the majority of people are wrong, and you're right. It's not out of the question. "Value" is ambiguous, though. It's not necessarily black & white. And I'm not sure that Pujols had better teammates around him (other than the pitching). He spent much of the season with people like So Taguchi and Yadier Molina hitting behind him. I'm sure he would have preferred the protection of Aramis Ramirez, and might have benefitted from it. Yeah, I'm sure having Jim Edmonds really hurt Pujols' numbers. :roll: That said, I don't have any problem with any of the top three MVP candidates winning it, because they all have their own legitimate claims to the award. But if you're going to pick Pujols as MVP, don't use the BS 'he didn't REALLY have better teammates' argument. Because if the Cubs had had Chris Carpenter as their number 1 starter instead of Kerry Wood, Jim Edmonds in center instead of Corey Patterson and David Eckstein at short instead of two months of Nomar and four of Neifi Perez, then the Cubs would have won 100 games and Derrek Lee would be undisputably the MVP. Those three differences alone make up for Aramis v. the Cards' 3B shuffle and Burnitz v. J-Rod, which were really the only two positions at which the Cubs were noticeably better than the Cardinals this season.

Chad Johnson. How can you deny the vote to a guy who actually has a poster in his locker evaluating whether the opposing DB decently covered him the previous week???

I agree with Vance on that sentiment. :wink: That said, Mary Ann easily. Not only is she much sexier, but if she can like a loser like Gilligan (which I believe she did), then maybe I'd have a chance!

I voted other, the thing that frustrated me most was the Cubs complete failure to execute. We ranked among the worst in the majors at scoring runners from third and less than two outs. Near the end of the season, we lost a game to Houston where we had the bases loaded, nobody out in the ninth and failed to score, giving the Stros the win, and the sad part was that I wasn't even remotely surprised.

I remember that. Of course half the stadium was Cubs fans so someone had to do the Chop. That had to be pretty disheartening for the Braves to come out to see just as many cheers for the Cubs as for them. Since then, Turner is now "Wrigley Field South", joining PNC Park (East), Miller Park (North) and Coors Field (West).