davell

Damn, if Teddy weren't already dead, that would have finished him off.

That's when Fox and his contracts are up. I don't think Pace leaves under any circumstance before then. In this situation, it very well may mean we're stuck with Fox for his entire 4 years too. It just doesn't seem to me that we can let Pace fire Fox, without extending Pace. And he's done nothing to warrant an extension. From a "preserve my job" standpoint, Pace trading back multiple times, into the 20's, acquiring an extra 1st next year in that, COULD save HIS job. Especially if he convinced everyone the next coach needs to have his choice of QB's....I could see that scenario play out, Fox hanging himself with a 6 or less win year and Pace still thumping his chest about being close. But are they really going to to into a season with a HC and GM in the final year of their respective contracts? Most guys are either extended before it gets to that point or fired before that final year. Good point, considering they supposedly had blowback from some FA this year about coming in to a lame duck coaching situation. Maybe Fox retires after this season? Would make things slightly easier, I guess? Pace needs a home run this draft though, for him to be extended, prior to the 2018 season. Some VERY interesting stuff on the draft. Makes it seem like Watson IS our guy, with a trade back into the 1st. Allen being our guy at 3.

But if it's a failure, we won't "know" it for a couple years at least. Glennon would be the cover-up to the first round QB being a bust, because they can say the young guy will be the backup until Glennon makes it impossible to start him. So that could buy them all of 2017 and then give the rookie all of 2018 and suddenly we're into 2019 before a new regime takes over. That would suck, and I'm really not at peace with that timeline. That's when Fox and his contracts are up. I don't think Pace leaves under any circumstance before then. In this situation, it very well may mean we're stuck with Fox for his entire 4 years too. It just doesn't seem to me that we can let Pace fire Fox, without extending Pace. And he's done nothing to warrant an extension. From a "preserve my job" standpoint, Pace trading back multiple times, into the 20's, acquiring an extra 1st next year in that, COULD save HIS job. Especially if he convinced everyone the next coach needs to have his choice of QB's....I could see that scenario play out, Fox hanging himself with a 6 or less win year and Pace still thumping his chest about being close.

I think this is the silliest I've ever seen a silly season get.....There are literally rumors of the Bears doing EVERYTHING. Trade up to 2 for their QB. Antsy to trade down. Dead set on taking a QB. Not in love with any of the QB's.....I get this stuff happens, but I definitely think its amplified this year. I think I've made my peace, if they do decide to take a QB at 3, or even with a trade back. Because, while I disagree, at least it'd be the death blow to this regime, if it failed. So, while I kind of like Pace, a failed QB in the 1st, would probably do him in. On the opposite end, if he hits, I guess things could move quicker too, towards being good again. But the rumors.....Jets(Jets also rumored to move down lol), Bills, and Browns, plus the Texans all looking to move up for their QB. Chargers, Redskins, and Steelers also looking at QB's. Kizer now not only behind Webb, but behind Peterson now too? Wtf has he done to be dropping like this? In non-QB news, Lattimore's hamstrings may put Conley ahead of him. McCaffrey may go top 10 now..... Here's my current top 10..... 1) Cleveland- Edge Myles Garrett 2) Jets(from San Fran) QB Mitch Trubisky( give up pick 38 and 2nd next year) 3) Panthers(from Chicago) RB Leonard Fournette ( give up picks 40 and 64, get pick 111) 4) Jacksonville- DL Solomon Thomas 5) Cleveland( from Tennessee) QB Deshaun Watson ( give up pick 33 and 108) 6) Cincy(from San Fran) DL Jonathan Allen (give up pick 73) 7) Chargers LB Reuben Foster 8) Chicago S Jamal Adams 9) Houston(from San Fran) QB Pat Mahomes( give up 57 and 1st next year, get 66 this year) 10) Buffalo- S Malik Hooker Other Bears picks Trade 36 to New England for 96 and 2nd, 3rd next year 40) QB Deshone Kizer 64) WR Curtis Samuel 67) CB Cordrea Tankersley 96) TE Jake Butt 117) DL Jaleel Johnson 147) Edge Garrett Sickles 221) OT Will Holden

But can he pitch?

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6 4 2 2 2 3 final line for Butler, with 7/3 groundout to flyouts. I'll gladly take that.

I decided to look a bit further with this, to see exactly where the FO stacks up, versus other teams. I used BA's 2017 Handbook. Not perfect, but a relatively decent gauge. I wanted to see what teams have done as well, or better, with drafting pitching after our non-1st round pick, over the 2012-2015 period. I also went ahead and included IFA signings too. BA has Cease at 4, De La Cruz at 5, Clifton at 8, and Albertos at 10. I looked thru entire top 30's, but only went 15 deep in this exercise for teams ranked higher than us(16th). Went 10 deep on teams ranked in our general range, and only 5 deep on teams in the bottom 7. In TOTAL, there are 41 pitchers drafted during that time that'd fit inside our top 10, that were picked after our 2nd pick. There are 15 IFA's that fall under the same criteria, of being in our top 10. I did NOT include Espinosa or a couple of others that went for more than 300K in years we couldn't spend that much. Anyway, the teams on a par, or that have done better than us..... Dodgers- Urias, Cotton, Alvarez, Deleon, Stewart, Oaks Royals- Staumont, Strahm, Skoglund, Blewett Brewers- Hader, Woodruff, Diplan Phillies- Sanchez, Kilome, Pivetta Cardinals- Reyes, Alcantara Rays- Honeywell, Hu, Schultz Yankees- Adams, Acevedo, Montgomery, Green Are we better than some of these? Sure. Some are also clearly better than us. At any rate, we're in the upper 25% of MLB, when it comes to success outside the 1st round, in pertaining to pitching. I thought we'd be slightly higher, but its still a very solid showing.

[tweet] [/tweet] I'm only posting this because.....How?

MEKKESWATCH is must see. Is better without MEKKESWALKS though.

I strongly disagree. Just because it's unlikely many IFA's have made the bigs yet, doesn't mean we have to ignore prospect status and minor league success. Hell, that's exactly what we did for many of the draft picks during this time. Other teams have multiple LA arms that are showing great in the minors. I believe the Cubs have spent more in IFA in this FO's time than any other team not named the Dodgers (who are loaded with LA arm talent). Yet they don't have the number of regarded LA pitching prospects that teams spending far less have. That could change if Marquez blows up, De La Cruz and Albertos can actually stay healthy enough to log some innings, etc. But as of now, there just isn't as much as there probably should be. Otani won't be available to the Cubs this offseason, so we can forget him. And it would just depend on what a guy like Archer could be had for. It may very well be so costly in prospects that it makes zero sense. But what got this whole discussion started was the idea that Happ was too much to give up. That's just absurd. I don't want to trade Happ. But, I'd deal him for Archer. That's a no-brainer. I would not deal him AND Eloy in a deal for him. I'd hesitate including Eloy for Archer, without Happ. I'd do it, but I'd hate it and figure it blows up in my face. I can't argue about how much money we've spent on IFA's.....I'm not really a fan that we've concentrated THAT money towards hitting over pitching too. I understand the typical reasoning. But, I'd surely have liked to have seen an extra pitcher each year we spent big. Gutierrez should have been ours. Morejon getting cleared late hurt us. I'm thinking Bolanos or Perez would have helped. Ruiz. We weren't spending the 30 mill total for Alvarez, even if I hoped we would. Timing of clearance hurt us on most of this group. The unfortunate thing though, is our 2 years of "all in" IFA thinking.....The pitching WAS weak in those classes. Both of them.(and the cool thing is I know you know this lol). We got Tseng, Medina, and Moreno out of the 1st one. Needless to say, that doesn't look great. Moreno still interests me quite a bit though. Our 2nd class seems weak to me overall, based on the amount we spent. I think we came to agreements too early on lots of the group and they took a step backward overall developmentally, during the signing year. Which screwed us. Not a horrible class, but nothing close to Eloy/Gleyber. But.....Albertos(if healthy) is the EXACT type that can turn this conversation moot. Marquez is a solid signing. Assad, Carrera, maybe another guy or two, all help the overall cause. Agree to disagree on when is time to question our success. But post more. Seriously. I'm glad the IFA stuff has you interested enough to debate. You follow that as close as any of us and I really hope you join in much more often.

I think Kizer may be better than the 4th-5th guy personally. And in a weak to average class, I seriously doubt teams have this group ranked the same. I AM starting to believe that he's sliding though. I do think he's there in the 2nd. Honestly, I don't see us finishing outside the top 10 picks. Granted, that likely means Glennon failed. Which I do kind of expect, since we don't even really have him a solid group of receivers. But, at any rate, if we have a losing year, Fox is probably gone. If Pace has enough support to survive, he obviously can't survive another bad hire. Pigeonholing yourself with a 1st round QB that's probably getting little time in 2017, may cost you a few guys in your coaching search. Because they'll want their own guy. Plus, the young QB is going to be switching systems after a year, which sucks. And hurts his development obviously. If you get one in the 2nd, my total GUESS is that it wouldn't preclude us from taking one again next year, if the opportunity was there. I get that we need one. But, this group isn't worth anything near the 3rd pick, in my eyes.(I know our views are different on this). If we can trade down multiple times, gain a bunch of picks.....Fine. Give me a QB with our 1st. I don't think it plays out that way though. Fascinating to watch play out. Nothing will surprise me. We may see 5 QB's go in the 1st. We may just see Trubisky and Mahomes. Or any other combo. My guess? Trubisky goes 10 to Buffalo. Cleveland trades for Garoppolo. Mahomes goes 25 to Houston. Pittsburgh takes Watson at 30. We trade BACK in the 2nd and STILL get Kizer, as the Jets pass on him and Arizona takes Webb.

He's shoving QB in the 1st down anyone's throat who will listen. I'll believe it when it happens. 1) Fox and Pace are (currently) tied at the hip. They need to show progress. Getting nothing from your 1st rounder doesn't make that an easy task. 2) If they were truly looking for a QB in the 1st, why wouldn't they have just kept Hoyer for less money, than giving what they did, to Glennon? They look like they're trying to buy time and possibly even fix QB, without spending their first on a QB now. 3) Some keep disputing next years QB class, saying "its always better next year". Leming being a main instigator of this crap. He says some guys will fall off.....So? Other guys will step up too lol. The bottom line is at the same stage, next years class dwarfs the current one. Last year at this time, it was just Kizer and Watson being looked at as 1st rounders and it didn't show many with potential either. Outside of the top 3 of Darnold, Rosen, and Allen- there's plenty of other guys with 1st Rd possibilities too.....Randolph, Mayfair, Jackson, Falk, McSorley, Browning, Francois, Jarrett Stidham at Auburn is making a huge impression and could wind up just being a 1 year starter.... And yes, you can poke holes in most of that second group. Some will end up 3rd day guys. But, the sheer numbers also dictates that next year actually IS better. Should be MUCH better. Not to mention, I think the Bears taking Kizer in the 2nd makes much more sense than one of the others at 3 or slightly behind that.

I was scanning thru. I knew I'd miss some guys. But again, if you literally separate it out, team by team, I stand by what I said originally. We've done just fine, considering we've not taken ANY 1st rounders. I left out IFA's on purpose. Its way too early to judge ANYONE'S efforts in the time frame the FO has been in charge. In fact, outside of Urias, I'm not sure there's another guy that's even in the majors yet that the Cubs have missed on. What sucks is we thought we had Urias and the Dodgers stole him from us at an unknown Puig showcase, set up by a guy close to Logan White, at the time. They offered him a bit more than we had and got him to sign on their first viewing of him, without allowing him to call us. If that had worked out differently, we wouldnt even be having this discussion. Reyes? But, he was a 2012 signee, and had committed prior to Theo even taking charge. As most IFA's typically do obviously. The 2012 class was mostly not of this groups doing. Paniagua was though. At the same time, its very likely De La Cruz was already agreed to as well, prior to Theo. So, he gets only developmental credit and not credit for finding him. The easiest way to truly look thru things would be to look at a teams entire minor league pitching roster, plus guys already contributing in the majors. Even regardless of where the guys were picked. I'd bet the Cubs still show up top half or so, over this time period. In the end, I really think you're jumping the gun on how they've done. This is a conversation two years premature, in my mind. As far as needing to go after the Archers of the world though, I disagree. I think the price is way too prohibitive. Maybe Darvish or Cueto isn't a great investment. Maybe Otani wants the 8-10 mill bonus, over the 300K we can offer him. But, I feel extremely confident that mid season of next year, if we are in need of a TOR type, we'll find one. Be it a rental or a longer term guy. That said, I think they've surrounded our pitching with enough defense, that we will continue to find enough guys that are successful, that keep us from needing to ante up for the major pitching acquisition.

I'm sure Raisin has bonus amounts, but here's from my memory..... 2012- Heesch and Martin were WAY under slot. The rest were what I'd call legit picks for when they were taken. Even Lang was close to/or was a top 200ish draft prospect. I think Prieto was the lowest ranked of the guys that got bonuses that year. Again, some may have received under slot, but still got very solid bonuses. Heesch and Martin were senior signs and got 20,000 or less. 2/9 2013- Pretty sure this entire group all received decent bonuses. Godley MAY not have, so I'll count him as a discount guy. 1/7 2014- Stinnett was a senior sign and received less than slot. But, was highly ranked and still got 800,000 or so. Obviously, Sands, Steele, and Cease were all over slots by a bunch. Norwood was around slot. I think Thorpe got close to 100K, but I'm not sure. I'll count him as a discount guy though. Farris and Williams were senior signs and got next to nothing. 3/8 2015- Hudson got over slot. Kellogg got slot. I think the other 4 were all under slotted. But, I honestly am drawing a blank on by how much. I think Berg got decent money. For some reason, I think Brooks got over 100K. Don't think the other 2 did. 3/6 2016- Hatch, Miller, and Clark all got solid money. Hockin did too. I think Ridings got a bit under 100k. Robinson was cheap. Mekkes was an over slot. 2/7 So, 11/37 of our top 10 round pitching picks were under slotted at least a sizable amount and got under 100k. This is surely not 100% correct. But, its fairly close probably.

By the way, here are the pitchers from each year drafted PRIOR to our 2nd pick in the drafts between 2012-2014. Too soon to go further. 2012 4) Gausman- Pretty solid ML SP, with upside 7) Fried- Wow, forgot he's been around THIS long. Still a solid prospect, but he's been around a while. 8) Appel- Yeah. 9) Heaney- ML starter, battling injuries too. 14) Travieso- still in AA 16) Giolito- Great pick, considering how his value peaked. But, doubtful he lives up to that hype. 19) Wacha- OK ML starter that shined at first. 20) Stratton- Not much. 21) Sims- Probably sees the majors as a pen arm at some point. 22) Stroman- Great pick. 30) Hensley- Nope. 31) Johnson- Not special at all. 32) Berrios- May wind up decent. 33) Eflin- Has upside, but no real contributions yet either. 37) Light- Nope 40) Watson- Nope 41) McCullers- Very solid. Only fell due to bonus demands. Was top 10 talent. 42) Bard- Nope What do you think? That's kind of scary to me. A few true successes, a few more that have hit the majors, and more that just washed out. A few prospects still running around too, so the return on investment is super slow. 2013 1) Appel- Yeah 3) Gray- Looks the part so far. 4) Stewart- No. 7) Ball- No. 10) Bickford- Not really. 15) Shipley- Still a prospect, likely pitches in the majors. But nothing special 18) Anderson- Nope. 19) Gonzalez- 1st to see the majors. But hasn't done much. 22) Harvey- Has had 103 arm injuries 23) Gonzalez- Not much 28) Kaminsky- Not exciting generic lefty 29) Stanek- looks like a good pen arm 31) Hursh- Nope 33) Clarkin- not great. 34) Manaea- Solid. Only fell due to bonus demands 35) Krook- struggled, regained velo, may still become something 36) Blair- struggled bigly in majors 38) Lorenzen- not great Bob. But has pitched at least 39) Knebel- decent pen arm 40) Thurman- Nope Well, that scares the horsefeathers out of anyone. KB is going to easily double the career WAR of that entire class. 2014 1) Aiken- LOL 2) Kolek- LOLOL 3) Rodon- solid ML starter 7) Nola- decent ML starter 8) Freeland- looks decent so far 9) Hoffman- has upside 12) Medeiros- no 14) Beede- No, but will see the majors 15) Newcomb- still a top 100 prospect 16) Toussaint- decent prospect 17) Finnegan- decent pitcher, still improving 18) Fedde- still OK prospect 19) Howard- no 22) Holmes- still solid prospect 27) Weaver- hurt, solid prospect 28) Griffin- no 30) Ortiz- no 31) Sheffield- top 100 prospect 33) Kopech- top 20 prospect 34) Flaherty- not likely to be more than back end guy, at best 44) Adams- not really Not AS MANY utter failures yet. But, that's attrition, waiting to happen. The grim pitching reaper will claim more of these guys soon. Rodon, Nola, and Finnegan are the only 3 who're definitively entrenched in the majors so far. So, what does this tell us? 1) Considering the guys from these 3 drafts even drafted prior to our 2nd round pick, we've done extremely well. Well enough to give me confidence in taking pitchers at 27 and 30, if we see guys we like. 2) Most teams need to stay FAR away from pitching early. Because they suck at drafting it. Seriously, if it were anyone outside of our group, I'd say no to us taking it early this year. But, I think our track record stacks up pretty decently, even WITHOUT the early rounders. And we can laugh maniacally at how bad most teams truly are at drafting. This is some scary stuff.

Hrubes mentioned the FO not developing pitching. Obviously, we've FOUND and developed it. But, how are we actually looking when it comes to the draft? 5 drafts in, its probably still a bit too early to grade. Especially since we've not taken a single pitcher inside the 1st round, as of yet. 2012 1-S Pierce Johnson- Disappointment? I'm not there yet, he's looking like he's going to contribute out of the pen this year. 1-S Paul Blackburn- Was borderline top 25ish guy, used in trade to help net Montgomery. 2- Duane Underwood- Has been disappointing, but IS thought of enough to make the 40 man and started off strong in his opening start. Still young enough to dream on. 3- Ryan McNeil- Had a solid year out of the pen, non zero chance he finds his way into a ML pen in a couple of years. 4- Josh Conway- Battled injuries, finally got cut recently. 5- Anthony Prieto- Did nothing. 6- Trey Lang- Did nothing. 8- Michael Heesch- Stuck around a bit. Did nothing. 10- Chad Martin- Did nothing. Overview- Took lots of pitching. Johnson may contribute out of the pen. Blackburn helped net us an important piece. Underwood still has a chance and is on the 40 man. So, even the first year gets an incomplete at this stage. 2013 2- Rob Zastryzny- Contributed last year. Looks like a swingman, doubt he's a long term starter, at any point. 4- Tyler Skulina- Nope 5- Trey Masek- Nope(I admittedly was happy we took him) 6- Scott Frazier- Hell no. 7- David Garner- Nope 8- Sam Wilson- Nope 10- Zach Godley- Well, he's made the majors for Arizona. He helped net us Miggy. So, this pick was far from a total loss. Overview- Took college pitching exclusively inside the top 10 rounds. Far from a success, but Godley helped thru trade(and has the most ML innings of anyone the FO has drafted with the Cubs.) If Rob Z develops into a pen arm, this class isn't a failure completely. If not, its obviously bad. That said, the 12th Round brought us Trevor Clifton on an over slot deal. So, the class is actually dependent on a non top 10 rounder. And he's looking like our first real shot at developing a starter. Borderline top 100 guy currently. 2014 2- Jake Stinnett- Disappointing so far. Would like to see him come out of the pen though and open it up. 4- Carson Sands- Solidly disappointing. Doubtful he's got much of a shot. 5- Justin Steele- Athletic. Has solid stuff, disappointing results. Too early to give up on and is in MB rotation anyway. 6- Dylan Cease- Consensus top 100 prospect. Could move quickly, now that he's in full season ball. 7- James Norwood- Throws hard. Pen arm. Non zero chance of eventual contribution, but it doesn't look good. 8- Tommy Thorpe- Nope 9- James Farris- traded for Eddie Butler 10- Ryan Williams- Advanced to Iowa, probably considered a victory for a 1,000 senior sign. If he's healthy, he'll eventually pitch in the majors. 26th rounder Zach Hedges gets a mention. He's in the Tennessee rotation and probably sees Iowa this year. Overview Cease has legit value now. Whether he makes it to Chicago or is dealt, he's going to net us something. Steele is still interesting, Hedges kind of is too. And Ryan Williams could wind up as the first guy to become a rotation piece, if things go well. At any rate, this draft class is a success, as far as I'm concerned. 2015 3- Bryan Hudson- Goofy tall. Doesn't throw hard. But, still intriguing, too early to give up on him. Things could come together quick.(or he could be released within a year or two) 5- Ryan Kellogg- Not exciting, but should be good in MB, and if he could add a few MPH, he's actually interesting. Probably a decent bet to log a few ML innings for someone eventually. 6- David Berg- Was excited and thought he'd be in the ML pen this year honestly. Doesn't look like the stuff takes him to the majors though. 7- Craig Brooks- Nope 8- Preston Morrison- No stuff, but knows how to pitch. Another guy that seems likely to log some ML innings at some point. 9- Tyler Peitzmeier- Gotta be honest. I don't even remember this dude. Casey Bloomquist in round 17 and Kyle Miller in round 19 seem to be good org guys at least. Overview This is the weakest class we've got. We conceivably may not see a single ML inning out of any of this group(or get anything in trade). Hudson COULD still turn into something. Kellogg and Morrison are guys everyone has, if they make the majors, its probably not with us. Too soon to list the 2016 guys. But, I'm generally pleased at this point, with what's being said about Hatch, Miller, and Clark. Plus, Mekkes is super interesting too. As far as who we missed out on, from the 2012-2015 classes...... Its unfair to list guys taken BEFORE when our 2nd pick was. 2012- Eddie Butler went behind Johnson and before Blackburn. Alex Wood went 85th overall, behind Underwood. I don't think missing on Chris Beck or Paco Rodriguez is a big deal. 2013-Cody Reed and Dillon Overton were 2nd rounders. Jeff Thompson was a 3rd rounder, so was Tom Milone. Stephen Gonsalves was a 4th rounder. Matt Boyd was a 6th rounder. Chad Kuhl was a 9th rounder. 2014- I guess Cody Reed got drafted again here. Eric Skoglund and Matt Provse are decent 3rd round prospects. Daniel Mengden and Jordan Montgomery were both 4th rounders. Jacob Nix and Brock Stewart were 6th rounders. Trevor Oaks was a 7th rounder. 2015- Josh Staumont was a 2nd rounder. Jacob Nix went in the 3rd this time. Chance Adams went in the 5th. Patrick Weigel went in the 7th. Koda Glover went in the 8th. I'm not looking at 2016 yet. Again, this is what's turned into ANYTHING. Not necessarily even MLers yet. A few may not even be top 10 prospects in our system. There's at least one, maybe a couple I can't remember, that went after round 10 and turned into something. Deleon from the Dodgers, that got dealt for Forsythe, being the one I remember. In the end, I'm just showing what we already know: If you don't take pitching early- Its extremely low odds that you're developing anything. In order of importance..... Cease, Clifton, Zastryzny, Johnson, Underwood, Williams, Steele Realistically, I'm too lazy to look up each teams efforts....But, after scanning these lists and listing the guys that are considered relatively decent.....I'd be SHOCKED if there are 5 teams that have better ammo outside of where we drafted our 2nd rounder, when it comes to pitching. In fact, I would bet the Dodgers are the only team that's done better. Maybe the Yankees. And again, our 2016 class appears to be starting off on the right foot too. As far as I can see, they've done a great job with pitching in the draft, when you're not taking it in the 1st ever. If that changes this year, I'll be excited. Because our track record on 1sts seems to be fairly decent lol. But, in comparison, our drafting of pitching outside the 1st has been pretty damn good too.

They're not going to touch him in A Ball. I'll be very surprised if he's not in MB by the middle of May at the latest. Could coincide with De La Cruz moving to Tennessee.

I mean 1/4 of our playoff rotation was absolute trash last year and we still won the world series...and arrieta was just decent overall. lester and hendricks were great, obviously. the point is, our starting pitching was a bit of a mixed bag and we won it all. Arrieta was really good in 3 of 4 starts last playoffs. That team absolutely had a 3 horse rotation and to think otherwise is ridiculous. But he's gone after the season and Lester is another year older. You don't mess around with any of the premium years of this core by putting out a playoff rotation of Lester/Hendricks/Mike Montgomery?/Cobb?/Liriano?/Butler?/Mills?. This FO may be the best in the business at recognizing and developing amateur offensive talent. Up to this point, they've been bad at recognizing and developing amateur pitching talent. I have all the faith in the world that they can find another Happ. I don't believe they can find a guy like, say, Chris Archer. They'll get a top tier FA SP next year, to replace Jake. They'll likely continue to try and "unearth" more Jake's, as they're currently trying to do. I feel confident that IF they ever get to the point where they HAVE to pull the trigger on a big SP trade, they'll do it. But I'm equally as confident that they'll keep finding pitching thru low end trades and Free Agency, that they'll never get to that point.

The Smokies were down 7-0 in the 9th. They scored 8 in the bottom half.

Nee must be better.

I don't hate it but I would be more in favor of moving further back; enough to collect a future first + some. And is Richardson somebody we want to give 50m to? I hadn't looked at his stats. Disregard that thought. No, I wouldn't want to give him big money. I thought he was coming off a much better season than he actually is. He's not worth the difference in value between 3 and 6, plus their 3rd. I'd trade down with them, but I'd want their 2nd for sure.

Miami seems to be looking at pass rushers and Offensive Line help. Forrest Lamp fits them perfectly and Miami gets mentioned by a lot of the analysts as his landing spot.

It really seems like the draft rumor mill jumped into full force the last day or two. I saw a reader comment yesterday on a trade down that'd I actually be in favor of, involving a QB. I still much prefer next years class, but if the Jets trade up to 3, for Fournette.....A guy suggested pick 70 and Sheldon Richardson as the return. Which could then allow for us to take Trubisky or Watson at 6.