USSoccer

Gah. We should be tied 2-2, but one of the flaws of this team is that they just don't execute well. They also don't come from behind well, so hopefully they'll buck that trend.

We did dicuss it, and i think the general feeling is that the club doesn't think much of Grieve. Gerut and Grieve are very similar, though. BTW, any news on a 25 man move to clear room for Gerut??

Excellent move. Dubois had no value to the Cubs this year or in the future; even assuming for the sake of argument that he could eventually play an adequate LF, Murton is obviously a much better prospect. Gerut should make a fine 4th OF next year and provides very good flexibility this year. Lee is going to need rest or he's gonna wear down like last year. With Gerut, Hollandworth can move to first and Gerut plays left against a tough righty. Burnitz is also gonna need rest and Gerut can spell him. Finally, the current CF is not an everyday player. Not to burst the bubble of perception, but Hairston was an everyday player in Baltimore; he just kept getting hurt.

He's a retread because he was the odd man out in a terrible OF in Cleveland. He's an incredibly dull acquisition who does nothing great. I have no problem trading Dubois, but they needed an impact bat, not another excuse for Dusty to bench the Cubs bench leadoff option on a regular basis. Like many Hendry deals, this isn't a bad deal, but it's terrible redundant and barely helpful, at all. I guess he wanted a second chance to make up for that silly Bay trade. Hopefully they aren't stupid enough to send down a bat after this move. It's pretty clear, they don't need 7 relievers. Sergio needs to go down and get some innings. I'd have much rather seen Dubois added to a package for a more meaningful acquisition. Oh well, I've grown accustomed to pointless moves by the Cubs. Ugh, I didn't even consider this. Assuming he reports to Chicago, that's all we need; to dynamite the 1-2 combo that's out us back into the race. It is obvious Baker doesn't like Hairston at all; why give him an excuse to jack with the lineup again?

Trust me, XZero, I'm not lamenting the departure of Dubois. I wanted him to succeed, but I did feel that he got a decent shot here, and he just wasn't up to it. Would it have been different for him had he played everyday? Maybe, but it's just as likely that the league would have exposed him sooner. I'm just not sure why we traded for Gerut, unless, as I think Geech said, the club really, really doesn't think Grieve is a ML hitter anymore. Which, IMO is wrong. If it were me, and obviously Hendry probably has more insight to this than I do, I would have held onto Jason because he might have been valuable to a team as part of a larger package that might have had more of an impact for us than bringing in Gerut.

Agreed. Dubois was always overvalued. This is a swap of two flawed players, who's strengths better fit what their new clubs need. I don't know that Gerut fills a role on this team that's not already filled by the 2 other lefty left fielders. I don't know that DUbois was overrated, but I know many people here thought he could put up decent numbers if played everyday. It didn't pan out, though. Gerut is a far superior defender than either Grieve or Holla, and is the offensive equal of either. Dubois had no future with this team. Worst case scenario: Hendry slightly improved the club or added some trade bait. No one can logically say this was a bad trade, IMO. I posted career numbers for Gerut and Grieve like 300 pages back, but the gist of them was that Grieve is slightly better offensively. I'm not sure how Gerut stacks up against Hollandsworth, but practically speaking I don't know that there's really any difference between the 3 other than age. Defensively, I'm not sure what Gerut's range factor or whatever is compared to the other 2, so you might be right. I don't really think it was a bad trade; I think it is a redundant one. That said, it's not the first move this year that seems redundant to me. Carrying Wilson, Macias, Perez and Hairston all at once seemed to be redundant as well, so who knows.

Welcome to the forum! Guzman is too hurt to trade at this point, and Brownlie has been converted into a reliever as of late, due to a drop off in velocity. Also, not to beat the dead horse even deader, but Dunn's on-base is in the .400s. It doesn't matter if he strikes out 200 times or 125 times and grounds out to 2B the rest of the time; if he's getting on base 40% of the time, he's incredibly valuable.

Greenberg I can see going down, but why would they demote Murton? He hasn't done anything yet to warrant a demotion.

Agreed. Dubois was always overvalued. This is a swap of two flawed players, who's strengths better fit what their new clubs need. I don't know that Gerut fills a role on this team that's not already filled by the 2 other lefty left fielders. I don't know that DUbois was overrated, but I know many people here thought he could put up decent numbers if played everyday. It didn't pan out, though.

He's a veratile bench player now that Greenberg's head is broke. So is it the consensus that this will not be the last move we make? I think so.

I hope not. As much as I loathed his signing, i'd be upset if he were dealt at this point. He's been better than I expected him to be.

yes.

What insight do you have that points you to that? While all we are doing is speculating, it is an educated speculation. We are combining Information from a very reliable posters Source, and Jim Hendry's track record. (he has traded for someone who is unwanted/meaningly/sucky and spun him in bigger deal. See: Aram & Lofton for Hill and Jose Hernandez, 2003) This isnt that far of a streatch. Do you think a guy like Jody is a deal breaker in a blockbuster deal? Guys like him are a dime a dozen. It's ok to speculate... heck I do it in cards trades. I'm just sayin... Jody freakin Gerut?? As Vance said, Gerut is better than Jason Lane, so in one way he's an upgrade over an offer that was on the table for Dunn. Thus, Gerut doesn't have to play the role of superstar prospect or stud OF; he just has to be better than Jason Lane.

This is still the most realistic theory. Dunn will never be a Cub, not until he's 36 and totally washed-up. I would put money on your post happening; however, there's info out there that mkaes for good speculation, given past events...it'll be interesting to see it all play out.

KRod and Miguel Cabrera say hello. Dubois wouldn't even be able to SNIFF their jock straps. For the most part, WS teams have veterans. I can pick a few rookie studs out of my butt, but Doobie is not one of them. I'm not saying Dubois is on their level; he's not even in the same hemisphere. I'm simply trying to point out the shortsightedness of the bolded part of the statement.

KRod and Miguel Cabrera say hello. Sure. And KRod shouldn't have even been allowed on the playoff roster since he was called up after September 1st. Its alwasy easy to pull up the exception to the rule. The last few WS winners have had rookies or young players play key roles in the victories, and a couple were the reason they won. How they got on the postseason roster is irrelevant.

Wow. That would sink the Indians ship for sure. Why they would do that when they are within 4 or 5 of the wilcard is beyond me. Why their fascination with Randa? Geezus. That would be a galactically stupid trade. Shapiro is smarter than that, right?

KRod and Miguel Cabrera say hello.

it's just speculation... I thought the Reds problem was a glut of OF's (Kearns, Pena, Dunn, Griffey). Why would they want another one who, if you believe posters here tonight, is inferior to all those guys? Excellent point, although in any trade scenario the pitching prospects and not the ML ready position player are the keys to the deal from Cinci's point of view. They'd just need Gerut to take Dunn's place assuming they also want to deal Kearns for pitching.

it's just speculation...

Or Ben Grieve. It's not an obcession with Grieve, it's using their career numbers to point out there's little difference between Gerut and Grieve other than age, and 27 to 29 isn't a giant gap. It's just another aspect of this deal that makes little sense. It's a razor thin upgrade at best, so why spend the prospect?

Vance, Roast hit on this earleir in the thread, but until you put it that way I didn't really think too hard about it.... ... ...now I'm a bit excited...

Doesn't Freel have a foot injury that has the word "degenerative" thrown around when describing it? I didn't know that about Freel. That's too bad, he's a real good player.

All everyone's saying is that it seems odd, given that we already have Hollandsworth and Grieve, and Gerut isn't better than either. I strongly disagree. I don't think you know much about Gerut. G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS 970 3209 471 864 192 5 118 492 466 779 24 5 .269 . 368 .443 .811 304 1096 150 291 73 8 34 1 37 107 143 18 12 .266 .337 .440 .777 You're right...Grieve is a slightly better hitter than Gerut according to their career numbers. I thought they were more similar.

Ramirez was 3 years younger than Gerut when we got him, and his bad year had more to do with a badly sprained ankle that messed his swing up than a 3 year decline in power.