USSoccer

No way I trade Williams in that deal until I'm sure Wood is ready to go opening day. You can't rip apart your pitching depth just to ensure Neifi is on the bench. If Neifi's playing time presents this much of a problem, then he should never have been resigned.

The only thing that would warrant Baker's return is if he immediatly became the opposite of everything he is. Sane lineups, fewer useless double switches, correctly handling pitchers, and playing young players. I don't care if we win the World Series-unless he does some or all of the above, it will be in spite of him. Hendry coming back should be tied to progress of the farm system in 2006 and the overall success of his FA and trade targets relative to our team's success. For example, if Jones sucks and Pierre is average, but our pitching stays healthy and Lee and Ramirez do their Ortiz/Manny impression, and we win 95 games and go deep into the playoffs, I don't see how that warrants an extension, but if Pierre and Jones both have good seasons, and Eyre and Howry both prove their worth, you can extend him, provided the team wins, and the top prospects he drafted mature. If we underachieve again, Hendry should be fired.

We were 5.5 games out of the race, but we were behind 5 other teams, and not once last season were we able to consistent. The idea that Kerry Wood pitching in a setup role was somehow going to help us overcome the fact that we were mediocre is foolish and reckless.

Welcome to the forum! Now that you feel welcome, let me say this: Dusty Baker is the worst in-game manager I have ever seen in my life of watching baseball. He is among the worst in-game strategists of any coach in any pro sports capacity I've ever seen. In 2003, he managed to have Kerry Wood and Mark Prior throw the most pitches of any pitcher in baseball. Wood is no suprise (even though he allowed him to throw 138 pitches in a 7 inning effort May of that year), but he managed to overwork Prior despite Prior having missed an entire month that season! He is responsible to the overuse of Kyle Farnsworth and Michael Wuertz to the point that both were fried by any given July. His decision to throw Chad Fox 3 days in a row culminated in a mopup, blowout appearance that also blew out Fox's elbow. His decision to let Prior throw 35 extra pitches in Game 2 NLCS contributed to Prior being gassed by the 7th inning of Game 6, NLCS. His cluelessness on how to handle a tiring pitcher resulted in a blown 3-0 lead, and a lost chance to advance. He has no idea how to properly use the players given him. He misused Mike Remlinger criminally during Remmy's 2.5 years here. He routinely constructs lineups that drastically reduce the team's chances to win. Neifi Perez and Jose Macias hitting in the top 2 spots should never happen for a non AAA baseball team. Yet it did last season, quite frequently. Lenny Harris led off games in 2003. Think about that. Given an opportunity, Baker will play an inferior player over a young player on the basis of the young player not having experience. Dubois, Murton, Cedeno, Choi...I can go on, but I don't really want to. Finally, Baker's final saving grace, that he's a players manager, and players will want to come here and play, has largely been disproven the past 2 winters. Baker couldn't prevent an immensely talented 2004 Cub team form imploding, and has done nothing to attract impact players to want to come to Chicago. Baker's winning % is the result of him having the best player in the game of baseball for a bunch of years in San Francisco, and him inheriting 3 incredibly talented SP's while in Chicago. If anything, Baker does more to reduce his teams' chances of winning through bad lineup decisions, bad bullpen management, the inability to handle starting pitchers, and a questionable ability to adapt to any sort of change. He's a poor manager. His only motivational trick is "Us vs Them", and when that doesn't work he's out of luck. I hope he leads us to the World Series, and then retires to go fishing with Darren full time. I hope the Cubs win despite of him, and find a competent replacement as quickly as possible. Larry Dierker or Fredi Gonzalez top my list.

It's been awhile since I've had my dislike for Baker stoked...thanks for the summary, Roast. It wouldn't shock me to see, once again, Hendry and Baker on different wavelengths when it comes to Hairston. Baker never seemed to care for him last season, so it might not matter what Hendry says. And if Hairston takes a lot of time away from Murton in LF (which shouldn't happen based on the fact that they both hit right-handed), I'll be at the front of the pitchfork/torch line. And my reward still stands. Someone ask the tough question, please!

The above paragraph is the one that annoys me the most - as if "almost" achieving something 3 years ago should somehow negate the past 2 season's failures. Does he think Cub fans are so desparate for something to cheer about that we should be awed, thrilled and satisfied to have ALMOST achieved something several years ago??? For me, the answer to that is a resounding NO! I remember reading about the great job Hendry/Baker did in Almost Magazine. :roll:

I think at worst, if you wait til ST and his stock hasn't risen due to his performance or some other CF's injury, make the same deal. But you leave the opportunity from something better.

I think Hendry's appreciation for career stats extend to the ones he can use to justify signings, not maximize results on the team.

At least we message board types aren't the only ones wondering what's going to happen at the Convention...

I think Rocket Sauce is correct in saying they are probably basing their opinion on that game he had 2 great catches in (and subsequently got hurt on one of them, IIRC). That was probably the "improvement"-their perception of him changed.

My $75 reward is still out there for whoever can ask an airtight (ie, can't dodge) question about Wood and the bullpen decision in a Q & A to Hendry or Baker and provide proof :D Also, if anyone comes across extra passes, I'd be very happy to take them!

that makes no sense.

Let's not all wet ourselves over Spears. He's a middle of the road AA guy. It's not like we got some top 100 prospect. His ceiling is probably Jerry Hairston's current production. Ok you can say his ceiling is Hairson's just as easily I can say his ceiling is Eckstein's. What's your point? Do you want to argue just because you LOVE to look pessimistically toward the Cubs no matter what happens? Or what. Please explain, I just don't get it. I'm happy we got ANYTHING for corey, and you wan't be put a damper on that, because? Easy now. I'm just pointing out that we didn't get anything special. I didn't intend to offend. :D

Gone. Someone already mentioned that Aramis is the one with the most tenure of all position players now. Wow. That sort of turnover doesn't exactly breed success... Thank you Ed Lynch. Well, do you think continuity helps? Obviously, if you have a team of scrubs, it doesn't, but don't you think it's a little odd that the longest tenured everyday player on a major market team with a top 10 farm system has been here for 2.5 years? I'm a big believer in continuity. Hendry's far from great, but he acquired Lee, ARam, Barrett and Murton, who are all guys who could be everyday players in Chicago for another 5 years. Lynch makes Hendry look pretty good in comparison. Saying Hendry is better than Lynch is sort of a backhanded compliment. :D

Gone. Someone already mentioned that Aramis is the one with the most tenure of all position players now. Wow. That sort of turnover doesn't exactly breed success... Thank you Ed Lynch. Well, do you think continuity helps? Obviously, if you have a team of scrubs, it doesn't, but don't you think it's a little odd that the longest tenured everyday player on a major market team with a top 10 farm system has been here for 2.5 years?

Let's not all wet ourselves over Spears. He's a middle of the road AA guy. It's not like we got some top 100 prospect. His ceiling is probably Jerry Hairston's current production.

Gone. Someone already mentioned that Aramis is the one with the most tenure of all position players now. Wow. That sort of turnover doesn't exactly breed success...

There's no upgrade to the OF coming. I'm not so much worried about that anymore. It is what it is. And if there's no interest in him during ST, then cut him loose for the best available deal, or option him to AAA, or DFA him. But again, if the worst case is we lose out on part of his salary and the 2 prospects we got, I'll gamble that anytime.

I think you are way overstating the market for CPatt. He's a 3m player who put up a .215/.254/.348 last year and is .252/.293/.414 for his career. How do you know the market for him wouldn't have dried up once ST rolled around? It was time for Corey to move on with his life. I think the fact that Hendry got anything for him is a testament to his trading skills. You don't know if the market dries up, but even if it does, what did you lose? A "maybe" IF prospect that will be lucky to be a utility IF in the bigs, and yet another lefty hard thrower with erratic command? I'll take the chance that Corey shows enough to tempt a desperate GM into taking a gamble. It's risk/reward. It's low risk waiting, because it's not like we would lose out on anything notable. He's also what, 26? That's still real young.

Leverage, what leverage? As Bruce Miles stated on this forum just a few days ago Corey was not a hot name at all throughout the baseball world. Well, you've made the point for me. He had no leverage. At all. Thus, it makes more sense to gamble into creating some leverage through 1) better play at the ML level; 2) better play at AAA; or 3) need created though injury in ST or the first part of the season. Negotiating is all about leverage. Trading players without any is just stupid when you know a player has talent (e.g. Corey). If it were some clown like Macias, when you are unlikely to get anything more than you've seen over his stay with the Cubs, then the likelihood of gaining leverage is low if not non-existent. But, that isn't the case with Corey. It is bad negotiating, pure and simple. It is always easier to make comments like this after the fact. Sure if Hendry would have had any idea that Corey would have turned out as bad as he did, I'm sure he would have traded him when he had "leverage." Instead, he took a gamble that Corey would improve and Patterson floundered. Last year, Hendry sent him to AAA to get his stuff together, he called him up late in the year and the Cubs even let him get significant playing time, possible to increase his trade value. Sooner or later you have to cut bait and get what you can get. The fact that the Cubs were able to get anything for him is remarkable and with Corey going to ST as a 5th OF or AAA bound, it is hard to see how he would have increased his trade value. But the point is this: Why not wait until ST, and then, at worst, you can make this same trade then? If an injury happens or Corey's performance turns around, then maybe you can get more for him than a "maybe" and a filler lefty. I understand moving him, and knew it would happen. I even called it happening like this, but that doesn't mean I think Hendry couldn't have played his cards better than he did. You can't keep selling low like he does.

I think he squirrels it away for either Lee, or Ramirez if he opts out, or a midseason move.

The Corey moment I most remember is him hitting a GW home run against either Pittsburgh or Montreal in 2004(I think it was Montreal), and Baker yanking him aside to call him out on the field, about 10 seconds after crossing home. That moment sums up Corey's Cub career in a nutshell.

I think JC is right in principle. Even though everyone here saw this move coming (I don't really think anyone though Corey would be traded for any real talent), the intelligent thing to do would have been to keep him through ST, because at the least you could have done the exact same trade then, and you never know. Maybe Corey shows improvement enough to keep him as a 4th OF, backing up all 3 positions. Maybe Reed, Damon or whoever goes down, and some team gets itchy for a CF who can at the least field his position. Or, if you want to, option him to AAA and see if he can get off to a fast start, and get more value that way. Is his salary prohibitive? Not really-Hendry can't justify not paying $3m for a 4th or 5th OF when he guaranteed $5m to Neifi and $5m to Rusch, both of whom are basically back end players. Bottom line is that the Cubs still could have moved him, but by doing so now they guaranteed the lowest payoff possible. That's not smart business. You cannot keep selling low and expect success.

The board is going to crash.... ...and good luck, Corey. I hope you turn it around!

I don't see Wuertz going anywhere, but I believe Wellemeyer and Corey are definitely gone, Novoa or Ohman gets added in a deal and I really have no idea what the deal is with Walker, so I'll leave him on the roster. I forgot about Williamson in my post. My bad.